Haruhiko Ash/The Zolge
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Amatsu~Naraku wrote:holylampposts wrote:Amatsu~Naraku wrote:thise reminds me of how amused i am when people call Moi dix Mois VK... hahahahahahahahaha
... no
...Wait, you mean it's not?
lol. I mean... I think its quite obvious, the difference between gothic and VK.
VK is a style, how you look, and carry yourself, however, Gothic, can be a style, or a genre. I would put no band under then musical genre "visual kei" because i don't think any such genre exsists musically. What I love about Japanese music is that there is a large variety, many bands i don't even know what to call them.
Moi dix Mois - Gothic Metal*, Classic influenced.
Dir en Grey - Trash, Rock
Malice Mizer - Gothic, Neo-Classical
*Gothic Metal is not Gothic. if a band is Gothic Metal, you can't call them just Gothic, because there is such a huge difference. Gothic Metal is the same as Black metal.
one band thats like impossible for me to genre-ize is Noir Fleurir.
Dunno about all that.
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I think VK is just a label, if a band does stuff that seems similar to what other VK bands are doing, people will assume they're VK. I think some people outside Japan just see what Eve of Destiny is doing as similar to what VK bands do because they're like Japanese and wear black o_o Um yeah, I'm no good at saying stuff.
I don't think it matters if Moi dix Mois is VK, it's an easy way to label them but Mana doesn't seem to be taking it that seriously, which I think is best. But I can see how someone, like Haruhiko Ash, could not want to be associated with the VK scene.
I really like what Kozi said. Um, yeah, this post ended up pointless though *laughs*
And in conclusion Haruhiko Ash scares me....a LOT. *lol*
I like Eve of Destiny though ^_^
I don't think it matters if Moi dix Mois is VK, it's an easy way to label them but Mana doesn't seem to be taking it that seriously, which I think is best. But I can see how someone, like Haruhiko Ash, could not want to be associated with the VK scene.
I really like what Kozi said. Um, yeah, this post ended up pointless though *laughs*
And in conclusion Haruhiko Ash scares me....a LOT. *lol*
I like Eve of Destiny though ^_^
...Diru definately has NO thrash in it. XD They're more like.. nu-metal. Malice Mizer, on the other hand.. they're just.. Malice Mizer.Amatsu~Naraku wrote:holylampposts wrote:Amatsu~Naraku wrote:thise reminds me of how amused i am when people call Moi dix Mois VK... hahahahahahahahaha
... no
...Wait, you mean it's not?
lol. I mean... I think its quite obvious, the difference between gothic and VK.
VK is a style, how you look, and carry yourself, however, Gothic, can be a style, or a genre. I would put no band under then musical genre "visual kei" because i don't think any such genre exsists musically. What I love about Japanese music is that there is a large variety, many bands i don't even know what to call them.
Moi dix Mois - Gothic Metal*, Classic influenced.
Dir en Grey - Trash, Rock
Malice Mizer - Gothic, Neo-Classical
*Gothic Metal is not Gothic. if a band is Gothic Metal, you can't call them just Gothic, because there is such a huge difference. Gothic Metal is the same as Black metal.
one band thats like impossible for me to genre-ize is Noir Fleurir.
As for Moi dix Mois, I have a genre for them. EGBM. Elegant Gothic Black Metal.
EDIT: LOL YOU TYPED TRASH. XDD ::long diru support post!!:: Anyway, I think VK can be heard as a genre, I have noticed a few cliches here and there, like how the vocalists 'carry' their voices, the riffs, ect. There's many KINDS of VK, actually, to me. It's like metal, once you're REALLY into it (onoez capslock tourrettes), it gets broken down insanely. But, if you're just scratching at the surface, it all looks the same. Even American music is like that. Bands like Static-X or Spineshank, or even Slipknot may appear genreless at first, until one is further into it. I hope what I said was coherent enough to understand.. >>;
I agree with what Miz said, that gothic bands from Japan can tend to get easily labelled as VK when they are not, and this must be annoying for the bands. (Ummm, I’m just repeating what you said already! >_<) And I think it’s good if people can be more ‘educated’ – God that’s horrible, I don’t mean to sound so patronising >_< but I hope you know what I mean… =/ When people ask question of ‘what non-visual bands do you like?’ I always say Eve of Destiny … they are so absolutely goth! O_o
Personally, I like and respect Haruhiko Ash.
I guess I’m just puzzled about the apparent randomness of the decision, because wherever EoD go they’re bound to attract at least some ‘VK fans’; it’d take them quite a long time to shake those off completely, I think. And they have played other concerts in Europe. In fact, Case, who has interviewed them and photographed them, runs ‘VK parties’ in Hungary, and yet Ash didn’t have an adverse reaction to him.
If he has sense, it is ‘any publicity is good publicity’, get people to the gig and let the performance speak for itself.
I can only conclude that there was some other, behind the scenes reason for the cancellation of that particular concert – not an unrelated reason, just I think it is more complicated than it appears from what gets out into the public eye.
As for genres… I’m not even gonna go there.
Personally, I like and respect Haruhiko Ash.
I guess I’m just puzzled about the apparent randomness of the decision, because wherever EoD go they’re bound to attract at least some ‘VK fans’; it’d take them quite a long time to shake those off completely, I think. And they have played other concerts in Europe. In fact, Case, who has interviewed them and photographed them, runs ‘VK parties’ in Hungary, and yet Ash didn’t have an adverse reaction to him.
If he has sense, it is ‘any publicity is good publicity’, get people to the gig and let the performance speak for itself.
I can only conclude that there was some other, behind the scenes reason for the cancellation of that particular concert – not an unrelated reason, just I think it is more complicated than it appears from what gets out into the public eye.
As for genres… I’m not even gonna go there.
I didn't say X are VK. I said they are considered to have sparked VK and are therefore associated with it (I actually posted an example from a Japanese source) and that I find it surprising, given how sensitive Haruhiko is to being associated with VK, to the point of ditching promoters and even a Goth magazine that started to also feature VK bands, that he would associate himself with X under the circumstances.Priss wrote:
Of course it's right to point out that Goth isn't VK (it certainly isn't - I should know, I'm a Goth) but I think Haruhiko and some of the other Japanese Goth bands are being narrow-minded. Resenting to be labeled as something you are not and trying to correct the impression is perfectly fine but habitually slagging off an entire genre is not (especially when half the time they can't even explain why they hate it). They should be angry at the media and general public, who are confusing Goth and VK, not at the bands.
No, it's not, although there is some cross over.Amatsu~Naraku wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Metal
(OK, it's only Wikipedia but it still gives an idea)
As for M10M: I guess you could probably stuff them into the Gothic Metal or Symphonic Metal bracket (but then you'd be ignoring songs like Vestige, Mephisto Waltz, Pageant, Perish, Pessimiste (original version), Solitude and Deflower) but they aren't Black Metal, they merely use some elements of Black Metal.
Batcave?? I always thought they sounded a bit like the Sex Gang Children.Amatsu~Naraku wrote:
I guess they resent the fact that VK fans are going to be attracted to them because of Kozi, but face it. Who would even know/care about them if not for Kozi. Probably not many people. That doesn't mean the fans don't appreciate the music either. It's just how they're introduced to it. I think it's ridiculous to alienate your fans like that. Bitch at the promoters, don't deal with them again, but play the damn concert.
Kozi's the only reason I know them! If it weren't for Kozi, I wouldn't even know of Haruhiko's existance, most likely.rizumu wrote:
Naja
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Why X aren't VK? you all talk as if visual kei follow some kind of musical pattern, and we know that while a lot of bands have a generic sound, visual kei is a music scene where any kind of music can get mixed, predominating metal, punk, etc. but starting discussing all serious about it, like "Oh no, X is glam, Noir fleurir is spanish-gawthic-release the bats from my hair" is kind of funny I think.
Amatsu
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to continue this discussion, lets make a new thread. I'll do it.
this is way too off topic.
Edit: http://www.scapeforums.com/viewtopic.ph ... 044#144044
this is way too off topic.
Edit: http://www.scapeforums.com/viewtopic.ph ... 044#144044
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Seeing as we are all starved for any news related to Haruhiko, I thought I would share an interesting discovery with you.
I've been researching the aesthetics of early 90's adult videos and found out that Haruhiko, along with the avant-garde noise rock band MENSU appeared in one. He was even featured on the box. I've cut the relevant sections out for you.
What's more, the video was released in 1994, which puts it around the time that Közi and Haruhiko were in contact. The scenes in which Haruhiko appears really reminded me of the ILLUMINATI live performances. I'm sure combining SM and live performances was probably pretty common in the underground back then, but I wonder if they took some inspiration from this scene.
Anyway, if you're interested in checking it out for yourself, it is pretty easy to find by searching the production code; VS-192.
I've been researching the aesthetics of early 90's adult videos and found out that Haruhiko, along with the avant-garde noise rock band MENSU appeared in one. He was even featured on the box. I've cut the relevant sections out for you.
What's more, the video was released in 1994, which puts it around the time that Közi and Haruhiko were in contact. The scenes in which Haruhiko appears really reminded me of the ILLUMINATI live performances. I'm sure combining SM and live performances was probably pretty common in the underground back then, but I wonder if they took some inspiration from this scene.
Anyway, if you're interested in checking it out for yourself, it is pretty easy to find by searching the production code; VS-192.
Don't tell me he, uh, performs in this 
What has this all taught you about the aesthetics of early '90s adult videos? XD
What has this all taught you about the aesthetics of early '90s adult videos? XD
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It depends on how you define perform.
A great deal, there is the technical things like the camera work, lighting, editing and then the general feel of the era, clothing, makeup, buildings, furniture etc. It's like a little time-capsule.
Well, you know, is he on vocals or does he play his instrument?It depends on how you define perform.
Speaking of adults of the '90s, there's apparently at least one love hotel out there that's been around since Showa times, and is done up with an "European Renaissance" theme, complete with Venetian masks and babbling in French
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The action is bookended with some scenes of Haruhiko performing live, at the start of the film a girl is brought out in PVC lingerie and they whip her a bit. The main actress is in the audience and then throughout the film goes through some sort of fall from grace, eventually finding herself in the role of the stage-girl at the end of the film.
The prices on the website are really whack, why is this room -Speaking of adults of the '90s, there's apparently at least one love hotel out there that's been around since Showa times, and is done up with an "European Renaissance" theme, complete with Venetian masks and babbling in French
Twice the price of this room.
The next time I find myself in East Japan I'll try and check it out.
Edit: I looked a little deeper and it turns out that that room has a private outdoor bath.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that.
I do remember reading an interview where Mana mentioned going to a black metal show while he was in France. He was also mentioned in the special thanks section of one Anorexia Nervosa's albums, who also happen to be a French band.
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I liked New Obscurantis Order, everything outside of that, not so much.
They certainly did.
I think RMS Hreidmarr spoke about it at some point.
On the topic of black metal, you could argue the main riff in 'Gloire dans le Silence' (underrated song) is a bit black metal, but only if your only exposure to black metal is post-2000 Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir.
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