About spreading their wings...

Vell · Dec 16, 2004

Hi guys...i was wondering, how would you feel about visual kei or variations of visual kei being randomly born on different countries?... I know some of u'd like to have some malice mizer-innovative music growing up on tanzania or Közi-like figures developing on Uruguay...tell me what you think about that k?

btw I know most of u know each other....erm...i'm Vell =) douzoyoroshiku! ^^ Have a nice pretty day =) may flowers bloom in the sky!!!! XDDDD

Eresjkigal · Dec 16, 2004

i think it doesn't matter where you come from, it'd be kind of wrong if only japanese people could do vk

Demanufacturer · Dec 16, 2004

*agrees*

although i do think that those styles is only for few individuals, not something for every one

Illaparatzo-sama · Dec 16, 2004

Cool anywhere they come from.

Pessimiste · Dec 16, 2004

It could be awesome aswell *shrugs*

it's just that men from countries other than Japan look less feminine which might make them look different(and in my opinion maybe even a bit less good-looking than) from the Japanese VK artists ^^;
But it would be very interesting to see anyhow! ^9^

navate · Dec 16, 2004

I wouldn't mind it in other countries... but I agree that they'd not be able to pull off the visual element as well. Asians tend to have androgynous face shapes that other ethnicities lack. It'd be tough to pull off the makeup and crossdressing.

Though I encourage attractive men of all backgrounds to don makeup at any time they damn well please. ;]

Eresjkigal · Dec 16, 2004

hmm.. thats not true, i've seen pretty feminine guys here too... and make up can do a lot. in fact, when i saw mana in paris he seemed more male to me than most of my male friends

Nephtys · Dec 16, 2004

I personally think that visual is a specific japanese style, and if I saw european or american groups doing the same I couldn't help thinking that they lack the imagination to find something new... (even if I know it's really difficult to find sth original nowadays...)
Also, I agree that skirts and feminine makeup/hairstyle may look weird on most western men...

Oh, and wouldn't you be suprised if you heard "visual" groups singing in german ? or in spanish ? o_O I think I would !

Yes, for me it definitely should remain a japanese style, meant for japanese boys. ^_^

navate · Dec 16, 2004

Hmm, that's a good point... language. I can't really imagine hearing VK in any other language, now that I think of it It's already weird when bands try to sing in English and the like. It loses charm when I can understand it. Plus (to me) Japanese is a beautiful language, whereas others aren't all that lovely-sounding...

I guess it wouldn't matter much of the costuming+ music concept spread but I don't know if I'd be able to call it visual kei. The more I think on it the more VK seems an isolated genre. There are just too many things dealing with its location that make it what it is.

Anonymous · Dec 16, 2004

To me VK = Japan. That's not to say that other people can't dress similarly or make similar music or present themselves the same way (as they have been...). Just that I wouldn't call it VK. Since VK is a mix of western fashions/music styles digested and reproduced in a Japanese way I think it's a little unecessary trying to copy it in the west (and would come out wrong). Best to do something new or expand the old (it's been there since before VK anyway).

One thing I'd love to see more in the west though (especially on gothic bands) is the more polished/posh style VK bands have. Just because you choose an alternative fashion doesn't mean you have to sit back and relax and settle for the alternativeness of it all. Did that make sense? Put the black eyeliner on, but put it nicely is what I'm saying.

Nephtys · Dec 16, 2004

amasanin wrote:
One thing I'd love to see more in the west though (especially on gothic bands) is the more polished/posh style VK bands have. Just because you choose an alternative fashion doesn't mean you have to sit back and relax and settle for the alternativeness of it all. Did that make sense? Put the black eyeliner on, but put it nicely is what I'm saying.

I couldn't agree more with that. I think that western goth bands could learn many things from japanese rock, visually speaking, though keeping their own identity, c.à.d without copying the whole v-kei look. Japanese guys' makeup in particular is often better done than "our" female vocalists'. Shame on us.

Priss · Dec 16, 2004

I wouldn't mind if a western band played the same type of music or dresses in that fashion. I just wouldn't call it Visual Kei. It has been done before, many of the local goth bands in Los Angeles have a very visual quality to their stage performance and look. ie. Tragick Black, Penis Flytrap and Fear Cult, who once turned the entire stange into a circus.

Also, i'll agree with what Amasanin said, about the western bands and makeup.

Priss

Elec · Dec 16, 2004

Ama: Holy CRAP yes. I think that music right now is waay too polarized. It's either too...'pop' or 'mainstream' or 'not real' (pick your poison) or waaaay too 'subculture' or 'anti-conformist' or whatever. I'd love to see a group of young, charismatic musicians with a truly goth/VK flair. Big scary hulking bearded dudes nor wraith-like shrieking goblins are going to win over huge crowds of people.

....essentially, I'm waiting for another The Cure.

Nephtys · Dec 16, 2004

Elec wrote:
....essentially, I'm waiting for another The Cure.

haha... that's impossible.

Orunitier · Dec 16, 2004

There are Western bands/artists that ARE visual, and that's what it should be called. VISUAL. Last time I checked, Japan didn't own that word.
Prime Example: oh,yes Marilyn Manson. You might not like him or his music, but you can't deny that he's visual.

Elec · Dec 16, 2004

Well, there's a difference between the dictionary definition of the english word "visual" and the Japanese music sub-genre that takes the word as its name. Marilyn Manson is an American artist and a gothic artist. I don't see him touting himself as 'visual'.

dimestore hod · Dec 16, 2004

Elec wrote:
Marilyn Manson is an American artist and a gothic artist. I don't see him touting himself as 'visual'.

Manson is a total different visual...more shock rock than anything. His image and music is used to shock people......not make them think he is the most gorgeous thing in existance XD! Though I will admit he was rather yummy in Long Hard Road Out of Hell....holy >_>!

sailorKa · Dec 17, 2004

>_> Marylin Manson and Visual are the Last words i'd stick in the same sentence. He's definitely NOT visual in my opininon.
A bit crazy on the make-up, yes, but not really visual per sé.
As staed before, I think VK is a truly Japanese thing, thou it would be great to see the sound being reproduced in other countries. Of course, there are some things that can't certainly be reproduced without adding our western views on it or screwing up completely the original Idea. For Example, can you imagine a brazilian or American Inugami Circus-dan? nope, neither can I. Really, the creepy insane lyrics sung by Kyoko's voice, 30-something-ladies wrapped up in weird-looking Kimonos

who have smeared lipstick over their white face is a really hard thing to pull off, lol. And im using Inugami as an example seeing that the male members aren't really that androgynous(sp?) looking compared to other bands.
Anyways, as fas as Visuals go, I cant imagine an american pulling off a Miyabi look and getting away with it. With that notwithstanding, I think it would be really cool to see some VK-inspired sounding bands in other places than japan.=P as long as they sing in Japanese (or french) of course! XD

Arison · Dec 17, 2004

Marilyn Manson is very visual in the aspect of 'RAWR IN YOUR FACE' shock visual, yes. A different style of visual than visual key, but visual none the less.

ange_de_lumiere · Dec 17, 2004

The VK title in other countries = plagarism

I would certainly agree with the fact that artists from different locations of the world can't go toting around the name VK. By doing that, they could be forging the concept and claiming it as their own in their country. Booooo.

But, there's no excuse that a band cannot be more visually oriented in countries outside of Japan! Marilyn Manson's flirting with a visual style, but he's nowhere near embracing the concept as a real artform. In my humble opinion, it is a pity that most music aren't also visual artists and stage artists and actors and dancers and acrobats and general entertaining works of art in the avant garde sense. Obviously I'm exaggerating a pinch or two. :grin:

But any such visionaries who can expand their talents beyond music I take great value in...even if they practically only reside in Japan at the moment.

About spreading their wings...

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