Interview with an ex-visual kei record executive

VKHistorian

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Geisha wrote:
Well, I can believe some of the business practices the article describes, but stuff like that goes on in the music industry everywhere, not just in VK and not just in Japan, and secondly, there is a lot of generalisation/exaggeration. The list of labels on the chart is hardly exhaustive and there are artists whose music/lyrics are too recognisable to be ghost-written, who dress up before they are signed/after they go major, don't do uchiages, have male fans and so on. And yeah, it's a little weird that this showed up on some obscure (English) blog.

I keep wondering what was with all the 'etc' on that chart. Does it mean there's more information (more companies) but he doesn't want to tell us?:shock:
Or maybe he can't tell us coz they'll kill him to death, don'tcha know?;)

All bands have male fans- and for that matter, female fans who aren't fangirly types only in it for the looks. I think the only reason 'Mr. Satoh' was acting as though only deranged, shallow fans exist is because they're the lowest common denominator, and marketing people like targeting their stuff at the lowest common denominator.

It did annoy me a bit though. Being a young, female VK fan (mostly 80's/90's/early 00's- I only like a few newer bands. But that doesn't make me any less of a VK fan because old VK is still VK) who isn't the fangirlish type (I like the music and have a moth-to-flame attraction to bizarre things) I found myself wanting to go and find Mr. Satoh and... do something intelligent. "See, we're not all stupid!"
 

Nocturne

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I dont know if I believe it or not. I mean, I bet some of it does go on, that Im not doubting, but at the same time, to the extent they make it seem like, I doubt that.

Plus the guy who is giving said interview seems really stupid and immature. It seems fake to me because of that.

Im highly doubting that none of these bands write their own music as well, like the whole, this person wrote this song stuff is just a cover up.
 

MissUMana

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Berserk wrote:
^^I think that's the reason why Mana always encourages the males to come out to his performances. He doesn't want his fanbase to be the lowest common denominator. He recognizes that good fans exist, and I think most musicians do. Mr. Satoh represents the pessimistic extreme, I think.

I second this.

Mana has been around long enough to know not all fans are fangirls/fanboys and I was indeed surprised at the wide range in his audience's ages at the Paris concert in 2007. I know the same is true in Japan. He is a "serious" artist with a world of his own, he wants to do his own thing so he has his own record and fashion companies, and frankly I doubt he's making tons of money with them. He is a respectable artist who wants respectful fans, so he behaves in a way that commands respect and preserves a sound distance between himself and his fans.
 

Phantom Pabulum

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Actually, I think the article is pretty accurate. ::kiwi:: has vaguely mentioned something like that as well.

In some bigger labels, there are many fake artists. Big labels get some good looking boys. They can’t play or write music, but they will form the band from good looking boys. They will make songs on the CDs, and will imitate bands like Johnny’s in the Visual Kei scene. In the big labels, there are similar kinds of artist. I think this kind of situation is not good to fans, because it is a lie. Fake songs, fake performances. So I want to introduce real and good music and good artists to Japan if I can do work with serious artists. This is good artists, and this is not good artist. I want to make revolution in the scene. I want to introduce real artists, not fake artists.

http://www.nipponproject.com/en/article.php?article=82
 

Geisha

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I've had a look around the net and I'm amused by the (predictably) gleeful comments from VK haters on TDR's blog and elsewhere. As if cynicism, manufactured bands, monopolisation, success/failure by association and other dubious business practices only apply to VK, indie music or Asia:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/fe ... sic-moguls
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/ap ... heobserver
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/11 ... story.html
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/ar ... 49933.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ap ... ang-jayeon
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
http://gizmodo.com/5417318/my-6247-roya ... -downloads
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyro ... oid=175160

In fact, I'm willing to bet that the bigger the artists and labels are, and therefore the more money is involved, the higher the likelihood for sleaze, but again, that's not the complete picture. There will always be artists (and fans) who value honest passion for music over a quick buck, whether they're into dressing up or not.
 

catsinheat

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None of it is surprising and none of it matters. Visual Kei is about fantasy, the glossy, highly-produced surface, covering the grime. That's actually one of the things I love about vk, if you have a goth acting dramatic on stage, but off-stage he is smiling all the time, he is not "selling out" or a "poseur". He is just an actor playing out a fantasy for your enjoyment. I do prefer bands by their sound and not just by their look. But I will say that even the worst-sounding visual band is more fun than the most serious major rock band. Visual kei is also about fun. At least that's always been my outlook on it. On that note, I was a big Vidoll and D'espairsRay fan since they began, they turned major, lost the look and now they essentially make soulless, dull music. Their production value went up, but they are no longer fun and exciting.

I would also take that site's content with a pinch of salt, the owner is frequently wrong about his facts and he tries too hard to shock his readers. I am surprised that the site is still around! I thought it had snuffed it.
 

Eville Von Random

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No wonder VK sucks so much. ::meev:: It was an interesting article although a big part of it seems to be way too exaggerated. I do buy the whole maxi-single marketing bs, and the roadie part makes sense.
 

Camuflagem

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Well, that was an interesting read, but actually anyone could write an interview like that based on so many things we read through the years about VK, and personal conclusions about the whole scene. If it is true, i think it might apply to a portion of the scene. not the whole thing, since malice mizer is too unique to fit into this thing. There are many VK bands that sound all the same and could be very well into something like this, still there are not enough proofs.
 

Elec

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Geisha wrote:
I've had a look around the net and I'm amused by the (predictably) gleeful comments from VK haters on TDR's blog and elsewhere. As if cynicism, manufactured bands, monopolisation, success/failure by association and other dubious business practices only apply to VK, indie music or Asia.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that the bigger the artists and labels are, and therefore the more money is involved, the higher the likelihood for sleaze, but again, that's not the complete picture. There will always be artists (and fans) who value honest passion for music over a quick buck, whether they're into dressing up or not.

Jesus Frackin' H. Christ this this this. Geisha I think this hits the nail right on the head. I think you're absolutely right.


I have to run right now, but here's what I wrote on another site that linked to this:

"I would break down what this guy says into a few categories, though:

1) "No duh" truths that are
a. specific to Japanese culture/business/music
b. equally applicable to how bands and the people around them operate anywhere in the world

2) Things that may have been true once upon a time? but seem cartoonish and laughable now?

3) untruths and twistings


I can't comment on anything related to big business because we don't have anything to do with it at the moment.
I'm also typically wary of these expose types of things because the interview subject has the tendency to coat much of what they say with broad "they always" or "everyone" statements, and unjournalistic cynicism. Still, I DO anticipate that some of this will serve to encourage people to take a more realistic view of not just Japan but at talent industry as a whole.

(we are totally allowed to have girlfriends and jobs and my apartment is pretty nice actually thanks :-* )

(also I can't speak for every single band and I do know of some iffy examples but in our case we absolutely do write everything and made every single creative decision on the songs we recorded in the studio)"


In the large scale of things, we are a super tiny group so I obviously can't make any statement about actual business practices. I can do my best to answer specific questions I guess, though, at a later time.
 

VKHistorian

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Camuflagem wrote:
Well, that was an interesting read, but actually anyone could write an interview like that based on so many things we read through the years about VK, and personal conclusions about the whole scene. If it is true, i think it might apply to a portion of the scene. not the whole thing, since malice mizer is too unique to fit into this thing. There are many VK bands that sound all the same and could be very well into something like this, still there are not enough proofs.

I'm sort of going with what Geisha (and according to Phantom's post, Kiwi) said- that it's the big companies rather than the little ones. I know it's just about money in the high levels- that isn't news to me. As a case in point I remember seeing Simon Cowell (who has shares in Sony) more or less admitting that he only produces music for money and hasn't got the slightest interest in the art itself. It shows, as well. People outside the UK, you have no idea how lucky you are not to share a country with the X Factor ::hora::

Anyway, to put this in terms of VK, I only have to look at PSC (who are, I believe, one the biggest VK labels, if not the biggest) to see that they're no good, and TBH there isn't very much said in that interview that I wouldn't believe of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Undercode have dabbled as well, knowing what ::kisaki:: can be like.

But when I look at, say, Sherow, and... no. Can't see it, I'm afraid. I don't see how small labels without tons of money could do half this stuff even if they wanted to. You can't do the whole bribing livehouses thing if you aren't a millionaire and are in charge of a grand total of four bands, for example.

I agree about Malice Mizer completely. If they were just a cash cow then I wonder about the mental health of whoever was in charge with them. If what Mr. Satoh says is true and most VK fans in Japan really, truly only care about who's the hottest member, then why randomly switch your band's genre every other album? Another band I'm doubting is Fatima- I'm listening to them now and they seem to have very much their own sound. They don't sound carbon-copy in any way at all.

And I second what Elec said about the vaguely plural statements. Things like this have a knack of making certain exaggerated implications without actually lying.
 

Dogfight

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On my initial post I was unable to fully voice my opinion due to my limited access to the internet. I basically wrote up a report pointing out the errors, inconsistencies, and contradictions in this article, and posted it in my lj.

http://flyingfoxbat.livejournal.com/381.html

Here's the meat of my post:

"If that isn’t enough to alert you that the interview is a hoax, just consider the basic premise behind it. A wealthy Japanese ex-corporate executive is willing to risk both jail and death in order to rat out the mafia to a blogger. What’s more, we are never given the name of this executive. Instead he goes by a one name pseudonym making it impossible to verify who he is or even if he exists. This violates the 6th rule of the Authority Appeal fallacy. You should never trust unnamed sources ! What is even more heinous is that the entire interview hinges on his being an industry insider. Evidence supporting his claims is never provided. Instead, readers are expected to uncritically accept the conspiratorial nonsense, bolstered only by the assumption that it is coming from a “real” visual kei insider telling us the “truth”. In an ideal world this nonsense would be rejected whole heatedly and sink into obscurity were it belongs. Sadly, as P.T Barnum once said a “sucker is born every minute”.

Of course, authority appeals are only the beginning of the failings of the claims made by this purported “ex-executive”. Many of the claims he makes are blatant contradictions. In the beginning, he claims that members of successful indie bands can leave their label when they want to:

“Every band has one smart guy who, after a few years, wants to actually make some money. And because of his band, he has contacts with all the major musicians, businesspeople, roadies, managers. . . so he decides to leave his band and start his own label.”

Later he says members of successful indie bands can’t leave their bands.

“Of course if the band isn’t making money , who cares? But if the band is making money, and they want to leave the label, that’s not allowed.”

He even admits that Kamijo switched labels four times! That’s not even bothering to consider the many real life examples of people leaving bands unharassed. Miyavi left Due le Quartz, Malice Mizer switched singers twice and lost their first drummer, Araki left Buck-Tick. In one part he claims that bands can’t join major labels but are licensed to them by the indie labels

“The indie sells a LICENCE to the major. They sell the major the right to release one or two records by the band . So the indie still owns the band – they still manage the band, but they get major advertising and major distribution.”

Before that he claims that all Indie labels are secretly owned by major labels.

“They (the top 3 guys) have the right to start as many record labels as they want, as long as everyone in ‘the family’ knows who owns what. And if you want to avoid taxes, you just go bankrupt! The label suddenly vanishes . . .and soon you start another one!Together, they got the whole country! By giving, I suppose ‘licences’ (if I can call it like that) to other musicians to start their own small labels (which are secretly tied to the main guys), they can do much more business than with 3 big, slow-moving labels.”

“Both! You put up some of your own money, and borrow the rest. But there is never –never! A point where you have paid off the debt to the major guy. You will always be his employee, even if it looks like you run your on label. Also, all the publishing rights for the music go directly to the parent label!”

This is contradictory. If indie labels are all employees of major labels then licensing bands to major labels would be pointless, since the major labels already have complete ownership of the labels and their bands to begin with. Also notice how he claims that the indie labels need licenses from the majors while the major labels need licenses from the indie labels. Which is in control of which? These are just some of the most obvious inconsistencies in this “interview”."

As for as I am concerned this article is a fraud. There is just to much information that you can contradict by doing a little research. This guy is trying to fool people
 

holylampposts

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"Speaking of major labels . . .Wasn’t there a case where a – a certain musician left his Visual band and became a famous pop star, whose songs sold millions of records? And the musicians in his old band had written some of the songs which turned out to be these hits? And when the musicians complained about not getting paid for these very lucrative songs, they wound up missing or damaged in some way?"

Gackt?
 

Iskanderia

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That's what I was thinking too, except for the "missing or wounded" part.

I like the following:

a space vampire who is also a gay Kabuki French countess.
You mean, if the guys talk to fans, and let slip that they’re working the midnight shift at 7/11, or living on ramen and pachinko, it’ll be hard for the fans to picture him as a bisexual 17th century British vampire space-man after that?
That’s got to be tough for an undead extraterrestrial marquis to deal with!
 

Nocturne

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um, which members of MM went missing or were damaged in some way? Nor did he use their songs. I dont think we would ever see MM performing Vanilla
 

VKHistorian

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holylampposts wrote:
"Speaking of major labels . . .Wasn’t there a case where a – a certain musician left his Visual band and became a famous pop star, whose songs sold millions of records? And the musicians in his old band had written some of the songs which turned out to be these hits? And when the musicians complained about not getting paid for these very lucrative songs, they wound up missing or damaged in some way?"

Gackt?

I thought that at first too, but I've never heard anything about a court case of any sort, and as for 'missing or damaged'... well Kami died, but Mana, Kozi and Yu-ki were all OK as far as we can tell.

Can't say I can think of anyone else it could be referring to, though. Strange. Unless... didn't someone from Luna Sea start a pop career? I don't know much about them, do they fit?

"Missing or Damaged" :grin: - sounds like it's referring to parcels that got lost in the post.
 

holylampposts

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Well Klaha is missing, and we all know what happened to kami....
Mana doesn't speak anymore, either.
 

Nocturne

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I think that may be going a little too far with it. Especially the Kami thing. I highly doubt any of them would go as far as death. Especially according to the guy since apparently the members had no power or say in anything.

Plus they said they didnt do anything to people on major labels, which MM was on at the time.


Singer from Luna Sea did more pop stuff.
Plus Inoran, J, and Sugizo all have solo careers
 

Dogfight

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holylampposts wrote:
Well Klaha is missing, and we all know what happened to kami....
Mana doesn't speak anymore, either.

I hope your joking and not actually trying to imply that Gackt killed Kami. I know there are a lot of Gackt haters here, but I expected no one would sink that low.
 

Einherjer

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^well he did perform at his highschool in a pretty distasteful publicity stunt. who knows. we sure as hell don't. we can only speculate. maybe he killed him, maybe he didn't. It's been years since his death so we need to learn how to forget and forgive. The only thing we know for sure is Gackt is a mysterious man of many talents and trades. It is as though he is from out of this world.
 
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