[DI3] Post here if you are planning to go o-o/

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inertia

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A lot of posts appeared in the time that I was writing mine. ^^;;;

The "don't stand in the front the whole time" thing that Minako mentioned is not actually applicable to these big Midi:Nette events, but it should probably be cleared up because I'm sure at least a few fans will be going to some other shows while they're here.

This is an important rule for small-ish to medium-ish concert events with multiple bands, like the ones that O-West and Area often do. The vast majority of Japanese fans attend those events for one band in particular. If it's not "your" band playing, you should stand a little back and give way to that band's hardcore fans who want to come forward. After that band is done, their fans will move back and be replaced by the next band's fans. It doesn't really matter what your ticket number is for these events because everyone moves around so much. If you've come to see one special band, you can go to the front for them along with all their other fans; but be careful of the jouren (regulars).

Jouren are fans who go to EVERY show the band plays. They are the core group of that band's supporters and in the indies scene, they expect some privileges in return for their extravagant support. There is a ranking system based on how much loyalty you've shown, in which they decide who stands where on the saizen (first row). If a band is very new/young and doesn't have an established saizen yet, of course anyone who wants to go close can stand in that empty space regardless of whether they've seen the band before or not. However when it comes to the bigger indies bands for which there's competition for the saizen, it's a privilege that you're supposed to earn over time by attending many shows and showing a lot of support. You do NOT walk in as a newbie and expect to stand saizen in that competitive situation, no matter where you came from. From their perspective, even if you came from far away, it's still your first show and you don't have as much right to stand there as a jouren who's given up huge amounts of money and time to loyally attend dozens of this band's concerts.

So when an overseas fan who's in Tokyo for a week comes to one of these crowded multi-band shows, not so much because they LOOOOVE any particular band as just to see all the bands they can before going home, and takes advantage of their size to bulldoze their way to the front row and then stands there all the way through the show, plainly ignorant of most of the bands, not knowing the music or the fan choreography, so tall that no one behind them can see a thing, without ever letting any of the dedicated jouren through... there are problems. ^^;;; This is the #1 situation that results in foreign fans complaining that when they went to a show, they had a horde of Japanese girls rudely targeting them for especially violent and painful lunges, attacking elbows-first. And yes, it IS rude for the jouren to do that, but in fact the rudeness was begun by the tourist.

If you'll be going to a typical O-West, Area, Rock May Kan sort of show with many bands, please keep this in mind. m(_._)m

At a ONEMAN it's different. You enter the livehouse based on ticket number and then go stand behind the fans who've already assembled there. You do NOT push through them unless you have a friend up ahead who has "reserved" a space for you and is waving to you to come forward. Once you've established yourself in that spot and are waiting for the concert to begin, depending on how crowded the venue is you may be able to leave it for a short time to do things like go to the toilet/coin locker/bar. (If you don't have a friend to hold the spot for you, you can leave some item and ask the person next to you to watch it.) But don't push forward until the concert is actually beginning. When the lights go down and the intro music begins, everyone will move forward and you can do it too at that point. After that it's a little tricky to move... If it's a super-crowded concert where everyone's going totally crazy and shoving each other, you can probably wedge yourself further forward. (Well, unless you get knocked out of the way by "tiny Japanese girls", which is not improbable because they're often stronger than they look) But if it's only crowded and the fans aren't shoving and squeezing like crazy, you can't push forward either. The only time you can move forward in that situation is if a band member comes over and presents himself to be reached for by the audience -- THEN you can squeeze forward to try to reach his hand. You might have to move back to your original spot right after that, though. ^^ Depends what other fans are doing. ^^

Minako wrote:
The height is definitivelly something to consider. Even more if you are also wide. The 140cm 40kg japanese girl doesn't apreciates being stuck under the 170cm 80kg gaijin... (or under the 167cm 58kg gaijin -that'll be me-)

I'm only 158 cm so I don't need to worry unless I'm in my very highest cosplay shoes, and all that does is make me the height of a Japanese cosplayer in platforms. It's exactly the same. ^^; But when I cosplay I do try to make sure that poor little 140 cm girl isn't stuck behind me, and if I find her there I'll trade places with her. ^^ I'm not so generous as to do it for normal-height fans, but it's just too sad when I look back and find a tiny unhappy-looking girl who can't even see over my shoulder. ;_;

Minako wrote:
^^; even for bands like lareine and fatima? It's kinda surprising...

At last year's Dis Inferno, the M10M fans did NOT give Lareine or Fatima fans a break. I was there cosplaying Kamijo with a Japanese Mayu cosplayer -- it was screamingly obvious whose fans we were, there's no mistaking my long blond hair and sequins and Shiyuri's purple costume and our roses and lilies for anything except Lareine cosplay. It was actually kind of embarrassing how conspicuous we were, Shiyuri and I were the only fans who'd dressed to support non-Midi:Nette concert participants. (The rest of the Fleur were nondescript in gothloli style except for carrying flowers, and if Sanaka had any supporters they were totally undercover) But even though it was so clear that we were bigbigbig Kamijo and Mayu fans, there's no way the Mana fans would have let us forward when Kamijo and Mayu came onstage. There were just too many people who ALL wanted to be close for everything. Luckily for us it didn't matter because we had really good tickets, so Shiyuri got to be front row and I stood right behind her. ^^ We never could have gotten close otherwise, though.
 

Minako

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inertia wrote:
A lot of posts appeared in the time that I was writing mine. ^^;;;
Yeah. ^^ But it's very constructive and explains it well.

inertia wrote:
If you've come to see one special band, you can go to the front for them along with all their other fans;
*nods* People notices when you went front for a particular band and not for all bands.

inertia wrote:
but be careful of the jouren (regulars).
Specially depending on the band... some got very... hum... strict jouren.

inertia wrote:
From their perspective, even if you came from far away, it's still your first show and you don't have as much right
That is something I find unfair too.It depends on the gaijin, of course. On what he/she's been doing the rest of the live on how many times you've seen them... But IMO when they see a gaijin for the first time that seems to be very interested they could be a little lenient. 1 gaijin... 2 gaijin... not a block of 5 or 6 gaijin bulldozing throught everyone as sometimes happens...
Anyway. After experiencing the 4rth line and behind... I've decided that I like it there a lot better, people out of the jouren zone are cool and doesn't mind you there if you show a minimum knowledge of the bands and respect. Sometimes they smile to you if you are trying parapara and things like that.


ooooo... time to go hooome. I'll continue later. ^^
 

shiyokumm

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Minako~
oh~sorry~~my English really bad...

12~18.....un~~

12.4 EOD release party(sure)
12.11 kozi release event (not sure)

and 11.28 kozi's FC event....
but it is hard to get ticket now...

and I think maybe all of people want to go dis inferno this time(who sign here) can have a meeting :roll:

and go to get ticket and join show together.....ha
it's fun.....

if mana see that "oh~many people out Japan here,too"
maybe he will happy~~ ::dix::
 

Faux_semblant

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Minako wrote:
shiyokumm wrote:
how many people out Japan will go now~~
over 10~~or more??
::dix::
Huh.... 3 from sweeden, me, geisha, feaux, you.... that makes 7 people for sure but I'm missing many others. So, yeah, over 10 for sure.

Mit will come too with her friends, and perhaps Gier(?) ^^

so much infos! Thank you very much! :D

so to resume I think I will be at the show at 4 pm (?) I think I will come with my swedish friends , so I will ask them...but anyway I guess we can all meet between 4 and 6 pm in front of the hall, no? Anyway I guess we will recognise each other because we all posted pictures (except Shiyoku)? ^^
 

LejuN

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Ah ah, ok. You are talking about multi-band lives about switching out. It makes total sence and if I ever went to one, I would have most likely moved just because I probably didn't enjoy the band. I always considered that when SS vs Fatima lives were going on. I wouldn't probably stay up for fatima, nor deadman, but I might have stayed for both SS and Despairs ray ;)

Anyway, good to know good to know.

As for height, well, I am tall, that is not going to change. And no matter how many people I let in front of me (i have budged a few times at various shows), I will always be in front of someone shorter most likely. And Like I said, I was informed about most of these rules before I made it into my first live and I also picked up most of the others from watching live videos and just seeing it first hand, and I have no problem conforming when it comes to these things. But the height thing, well, I am sorry. I payed a LOT of money to get to these shows (not just for getting to Japan, but the tickets off of Yahoo sometimes were arm and a leg) and I don't really feel that I should be in the back because of my size. :/

Again, there were quite a few people with the m10m sized hair and I am sure blocking tons of people, none of them moved, so meh.

Anyway, thanks again. I also was going to add more pointers about what to do the day of the live (such as talk about goods tables and what time to get there if you want stuff, locker situations, how to hydrate yourself (and not too much so you are not running to bathroom every 10 minutes and not too little so you don't pass out when you are in a pool of your own sweat and others without any air to breath) o-o;

I am too tired to list things right now, but I will later I guess.

I want to compile all this info in a nice thread. We have plans for this forum after the event. We will basically use it for Japan info. So we will have a "waht to do at lives" thread, an airfare and hotel assistance thread, language threads, etc etc.

So any facts anyone thinks are useful, please please add away :)

Thanks.

+LejuN+
 

LejuN

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Faux_semblant wrote:
Mit will come too with her friends, and perhaps Gier(?) ^^

Mit is a guy ^^;;;

+LejuN+
 

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In regards to everything you've all said, just wanted to add my own experience of being nicely behaved and still elbowed, pushed and crashed by 'tiny japanese girls'. :P

I didn't even go straight in front of the stage when I walked in cause I needed to use the toilet and go to the lockers and then when I did go join LejuN, there was still no people behind him so I had in no way violated someone else's space. I was about 3-4 row so not in jouren zone (don't even know if SS had a jouren) and only moved forward when everyone pushed at the beginning (and didn't move forward enough even, as I was seperated from LejuN who moved normally) and then my only other attempt to move forward was just to grab LejuN who was one row ahead of me (and I'm sure people could tell that we were together). It was downright impossible. :P

I'm tall to be fair (173cm + boots) but LejuN was in front of me so I couldn't see either *lol* and still got beaten up to death. One girl in particular must have been really out to kill me lol cause the elbowing she did was not only vicious but unecessary as she was already ahead of me and wasn't that short either. On the other hand I had a really short girl behind me and I turned to her a couple of times to push her forward but that was impossible too. Nobody around me would let me move in any way.

So what I'm trying to say is, follow the rules and all but be prepared for slaughter regardless...
 

Gier

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I am definately going...I got my tix and everything. I haven't decided how long to stay yet.

I can attest to the suprising physicality of the SS live. Japanese girls, with their lower centers of gravity are a force to be reckoned with but I didn't have any ire specifically directed towards me. LejuN and I made it almost to the very front in 3 or 4 songs without too much trouble. I'm not tall and I didn't have any platforms so I wasn't in danger of eclipsing the stage or anything and often found myself with a huge plume of hair in my face. It seemed like everyone was pretty nice to me their, of course they mostly ignored me for one of a few reasons but I made some friends for a split second when I was letting people smell the piece of Kaya's skirt I caught.

Pretty much everything in this thread is helpful advice, don't scream during the songs and so on as their will be plenty of time for that in between songs.

I didn't know anything about "jouren" but it seems like an exceedingly silly idea to me. The fact that a group of people can go around feeling as if they're somehow entitled to special treatment and have no problem bully others seems to be a very negative thing.

So, if we're planning to meet up (assuming of course that anyone aside from ol' Mit would even want to meet me) we should organize and do...stuff.
 

Minako

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Faux_semblant wrote:
Mit will come too with her friends, and perhaps Gier(?) ^^

so to resume I think I will be at the show at 4 pm (?) I think I will come with my swedish friends , so I will ask them...but anyway I guess we can all meet between 4 and 6 pm in front of the hall, no? Anyway I guess we will recognise each other because we all posted pictures (except Shiyoku)? ^^

Well that makes 10 for sure + the ones we are missing... ^^;

Yeah 4 more or less. it also depends on the sweedish friends I guess? ^^ Have to talk to Pau, she´s not in the forum and I rarelly see her on ICQ lately. So no idea of what she's planning.
I don´t know who I´ll recognize. I didn´t pasted a pic anywhere in ages. You for sure, Geisha also because we will met at airport, inertia probably too. ^^; This is going to be a strange thing... gaijin appearing little by little and introducing each other... Last time I saw various times the same people at lives, but never talked to them. We all stayed in our corner. ^^;;
 

Minako

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amasanin wrote:
So what I'm trying to say is, follow the rules and all but be prepared for slaughter regardless...

Yes. ^^;
Also another thing I noticed in some live. the first lines are always packed then there is a point where people stops pushing and are just standing. So it makes like a zone in between when there is not many people. BUT beware of that zone. It´s the most dangerous one. XDDD The girls tends to run and collide (can´t find a better word, it IS a collision) against the last people in the packed zone. So if you find yourself there. You´ll have japanese girls throwing themselves against your back. They run 1m or so and then jump against people´s back. If it´s your back... be prepared to die... It´s not because you are gaijin, they do it regardless of who is there. First time I was like O_O; Fuck what did I do, nobody seems to have a problem with me and now I´ve been declared a killing objective?? So I left the place as fast as possible and went back... ^^; And the girls kept jumping. A japanesse girl back there smiled at me like "huh... yeah... scarry, eh?" when she saw my panic face. So I concluided... that it was not me, they always do it. I saw it at other lives. You have to try to be on the packed zone (but never the last row of the zone, or directly out of it. If you´re in between it´s bad bad idea. Again, this will hardly apply in calmer bands, in very small shows, in seated shows or in Dis Inferno event. From what Inertia said, there will be no space to do that. I saw that happening in... huh... Kagrra, D and Ancafe and some others maybe.

And the funy note of this. XDDDDD At a multi-band event, with seats, when japanese aren´t interested in a band they may go out, eat or... XDDDD sleep. I was amazed at that. I mean... For me sleeping is like such a BIG disrespect towards a band and their fans. XDDDD But lots of people did it, and it seemed to be OK... By the 2nd day of festival I was also taking naps in some bands. :P
 

Geisha

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How hot is it likely to get inside the venue? By what I have read so far it sounds like it could be *very* hot. I'm trying to plan my outfit and I'm not sure if I would survive in a corset (but I would love to wear one). ;)

Gier wrote:
I didn't know anything about "jouren" but it seems like an exceedingly silly idea to me. The fact that a group of people can go around feeling as if they're somehow entitled to special treatment and have no problem bully others seems to be a very negative thing.
I couldn't agree more but I think we will have to respect that. I'm aware of the responsibility we have and I'm determined to make the best impression I can.

Minako wrote:
This is going to be a strange thing... gaijin appearing little by little and introducing each other... Last time I saw various times the same people at lives, but never talked to them. We all stayed in our corner. ^^;;
I think it will be nice to talk to people face to face that I know from -scape- but never met in person before. :)
 

Faux_semblant

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Geisha wrote:
How hot is it likely to get inside the venue? By what I have read so far it sounds like it could be *very* hot. I'm trying to plan my outfit and I'm not sure if I would survive in a corset (but I would love to wear one). ;)

...I think it will be nice to talk to people face to face that I know from -scape- but never met in person before. :)

my friends told me that during Mana event , it is always fresh (perhaps because Mana's make up need it!)
I will wear a corset too ^^;; ---> *girl's problem*

and I will be glad to meet everybody too! Sometimes I am shy for very strange things , but I have never problem to go to speak to people first!! :grin:
 

Minako

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I have a question... kinda unrealted to this event.
At what time does lives end usually? I never checked. I know that for the whole day events (12/13bands starting at 11) it was usually finished by 21 or 21.30h...
Speciffically the live I´m asking for starts at 16.45 and is 7 bands (average number).I´m trying to make impossible combinations like being at a live 1 night in Nagoya, take a night bus to Tokyo and take a plane the next morning. XDDDD So I need to know at what time this lives finishes usually... 21h 22h? later??? To know If I could arive to take a night bus at 22.30 or 22.50 (I consider the shinkansen at 21.45/22.03h impossible).
 

LejuN

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Geisha: I have never been to a live where I was not absolutely suffocating, overly hot and drenched in sweat. Moi dix Mois + Schwarz Stein included. This might not be as bad since it is more of an event type thing and less of a live, but who knows. Yeah, it is going to be air conditioned and it is going to be nice on stage of course, but man, look at dix infernal live DVD. Even Juka was sweating like crazy! It is just impossible to avoid if you are crushed in with hundreds of bodies litterally smashed together and not being able to really move. The first time I went to a live, it was almost scary as it got a little too cluasterphobic for me and I never get this feeling o-o;;;

Anyway, I always see the really nicely dressed people standing more near the back where it is not as crushed. Seems nicer back there, but I wouldn't know :)


Minako: I can't even find where it says the actual start time o-o; Am I blind? I don't know what time it ends. But most events, especially smaller are set up with trains closing down at a certain time in mind ne?

+LejuN+
 

Anonymous

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No matter what you wear you'll still find it too hot. But you get an occasional breath of wind so you don't suffocate. My main problem is the proximity at lives - I don't like being so close to so many people and being able to smell everything. Even if it's slightly more pleasant than being on an absolutely packed bus, it's only just slightly more pleasant....

My advice for what to wear: If you want to be near the front then I advise against clothes that might tear or become damaged in some way easily. A corset might be fine, but it really depends on the corset and how used you are to wearing it. If it's a proper, boned corset that you normally have to sit a specific way with and you wear it appropriately tight then maybe it's not such a good idea. But it depends on you and how 'trained' you are really. In general it's best to wear things you feel confortable in because you'll get a lot of discomfort from other areas (the heat, the people) so you don't want things like your clothes or shoes distracting you from the live as well.
 

Geisha

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It sounds like I will be hot and uncomfortable whatever I'm wearing, so I might as well wear something nice (but not too delicate). All my corsets are steel boned, which can be good protection against the occasional elbow, and I'm pretty well trained. I think I will wear a corset but I'll make sure I don't lace it too tightly. ;)

I still regret that I didn't dress up more for the Japan Expo but firstly it was a daytime event and secondly I couldn't think of a way to get through airport security in a steel boned corset without setting off every single metal detector. The stares I got from the people at the airport and on the plane were bad enough as it was.

Faux_semblant wrote:
I will be glad to meet everybody too! Sometimes I am shy for very strange things , but I have never problem to go to speak to people first!! :grin:
I'm terrible that way - I never speak to people I don't know because I don't know what to say to them. I'm sure we will have a lot to talk about though! :)
 

Mit

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I think live is like a battlefield.

Japanese fans including me sometimes feel unconfortable at live because of other fans' elbows or fists. But that's the way it goes. We have to be fighters. lol At least, I want to take care to do not attack other fans.


To shiyokumm

Hi! I didn't think that I could find a Taiwanese fan on Scape! Yes I love Taiwan. I've studied Chinese a little when I was a student and my teacher was a Taiwanese. But my Chinese is too BAD! lol
Anyway, I hope we can meet at the 15th December.
 

shiyokumm

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hi Mit~
Nice to meet you :grin:
you studiend Chinese???? hoho~good
I learn Japanese hard for MM...
I can speak a little^^ :)
so do you want to go another event
I mean kozi FC EVENT and EOD release party....
and I heard another kozi event but that not make sure....
I'll stay in Japan 11.26-12.17..for these all event..
and :shock: I should go EOD release party just myself

::dix::
 

Mit

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shiyokumm wrote:
hi Mit~
Nice to meet you :grin:
you studiend Chinese???? hoho~good
I learn Japanese hard for MM...
I can speak a little^^ :)
so do you want to go another event
I mean kozi FC EVENT and EOD release party....
and I heard another kozi event but that not make sure....
I'll stay in Japan 11.26-12.17..for these all event..
and :shock: I should go EOD release party just myself

::dix::

Unfortunately, my friend have failed to get our tickets for Kozi's,
so I'm not able to go there.
In addition, I have no money to do too. ^_^;;
My Chinese is weird absolutely because I can't speak at all! haha
But I like Taiwan and Chinese. ^_^
 
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