Haruhiko Ash/The Zolge

Discussion in '-main-' started by flowersofnight, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. Geisha -member- -member-

    Geisha
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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    Location: In midnight ruins...
    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:27 pm

    Kazuo wrote:
    Evidently not only Westerners:

    Yahoo Japan News wrote:
    Kinsao wrote:
    You're right but it goes a bit deeper than that. Haruhiko has been making contemptuous remarks about VK bands in interviews for years. The JaME thing is part of his wanting to dissociate himself from VK:

     
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  2. D -member- -member-

    D
    Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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    Location: -Disorder Heaven-
    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:45 pm

    It's one thing to disassociate yourself from being in magazines associated with Visual kei, like Dir en grey. But, to have the nerve to not play a show because there might be Visual kei fans in the crowd is absurd and cocky to me.
    Haruhiko sure does put himself on a high pedestal. :|
     
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  3. PureElegance -eternite- eternite

    PureElegance
    Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:38 pm

    I dont like that they cancelled it for that reason. I was a little shocked actually. I feel bad for the fans who wanted to see them. Haruhiko is a little weird in that area :| ...And whats up with Kozi? ::weepy:: This is weird for me ::hora::
     
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  4. dark dust -member- -member-

    dark dust
    Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:38 pm

    I don't even think Közi says much on anti-VK. But I'm not sure, I wasn't aware that Haruhiko hated VK so much. I just figured it was something like "No, I don't play VK. I never did, and I have no interest in doing so. Stop mentioning it." How odd..
     
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  5. Camuflagem -member- -member-

    Camuflagem
    Joined: 04 Apr 2005
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    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:46 pm

    Kozi never said he was anti-VK or anything of the sort; only haruhiko said such things. i think he (haruhiko) is just being true to his beliefs, because, to him, VK is like a 'false-Goth', because they don't know anything about the subculture and only care about the fashion aspect. Since he aims Eod to be seen as a goth band, he would not accept Jame or other groups to promote them as Vk, it would be contradictory to all the work he has done before, trying to play in goth festival , goth clubs, and so on. Maybe he went too far canceling the live...but if he did this, he thought this was the best solution; since i wasn't there, i can't say if it was the best decision or not, but it is already done anyway. :roll:
     
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  6. navate -member- -member-

    navate
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    Location: nj : usa
    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:01 pm

    I don't follow EoD in the slightest, but I still think it's weird Haruhiko would even have Kozi playing for him if he were THAT anti-VK. He won't play for VK fans, but he'll have a guitarist from Malice Mizer, possibly the most extravagant/epitomized VK band ever, on stage with him? That's a bit more ciontradictory to me than anything else.

    I wonder how Kozi puts up with that sort of anti VK attitude, between Kozi's own history and the continuing visual aspects of his solo career. :|
     
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  7. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:14 pm

    Well let's face it, much as we love the Malice Mizer alumni, VK on the whole is not what you would call a serious genre. Most of the scene is really an embarrassment. I can completely see why Haruhiko wouldn't want to get tied together with that, given that he wanted EOD to be a serious gothic/industrial project.

    As for having Kozi as a member: why not? He should be able to get away from his old career and do something different if he wants, even if it's only part-time, right?
     
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  8. Camuflagem -member- -member-

    Camuflagem
    Joined: 04 Apr 2005
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    Location: Cliff of Madness
    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:06 pm

    navate wrote:
    Haruhiko and Kozi know each other since the zolge days . Kozi respects Haruhiko very much, it was one of the reasons he joined eod (i think); even if they have different views/opinions on this, i think they respect each other very much. And, i think kozi has a different way of expressing himself [ attitude] in eod, his make up and clothes tend to be more serious and less varied than in his solo.
     
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  9. Naja -member-

    Naja
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    Location: Room of close associates
    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:40 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    at least visual kei labels do release CDs ::gaku::
    but about the scene not being serious, etc... i think it happens to most music scenes with time, that's why i don't like to generalize in VK... many of the shittiest bands I've ever seen are on VK; and at the same time my favorite bands are VK (and not Malice Mizer related :D), I agree to whoever said Haruhiko is really contradictory at recluting Kozi as his guitarist; they can be old friends and all, but bringing Kozi to small clubs in europe (or any place with internet and teenage girls) means you will get the place packed with VK fangirls I (L) Yaoi.
     
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  10. Amatsu -member-

    Amatsu
    Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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    Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:42 pm

    I don't like Haruhiko, i never have. i think anyone can make their voice sound like that, i know i can, and it doesn't take much skill. its would be competely absurd if kozi was all anti-kei, considering he was in Malice mizer, that created, if not, publicized the huge "20th century" v-kei scene.

    I like kozi, and the song nervouce and innocence. nothing else about EoD do i like.
     
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  11. Priss -member- -member-

    Priss
    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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    Location: Castle Town
    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:46 am

    I respect Haruhiko Ash.
    I think it's great that he wants to show people that VK and Goth aren't the same thing. If that causes him to lose some fans, then so be it. If they don't like Eve of Destiny for that reason, then they probably liked them for the wrong reasons, didn't they? ::cop::


    Priss
     
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  12. navate -member- -member-

    navate
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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    Location: nj : usa
    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:12 am

    flowersofnight wrote:
    Exactly, it's part time. If Haruhiko thinks VK and goth can't mix, how can Kozi be a goth when he's playing for EoD but dip back into VK for his solo work? Personally I think no matter how Kozi dresses, goth or more visual, he's being true to himself. But I'm not sure how Haruhiko justifies what seems to me a clear hypocrisy.

    I personally think most goth is incredibly embarassing and impossible to take seriously, as much as VK. ::gaku::
     
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  13. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:59 am

    navate wrote:
    I think it's just that they can't mix at the same time and place, i.e. promoting a goth project as VK is no good in his book.

    Hmm yes, part of the difference merely depends on whether you store your bats in your hair or in your Louis Vuitton handbag. XD But I think there's also a difference in the way the artists and fans relate. VK's sort of pathological in that regard, to the point that it distracts from the artistry.
     
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  14. Kinsao -member- -member-

    Kinsao
    Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:03 am

    Wow – there’s been a lot of discussion on this interesting subject! O_o

    First off, thank you Geisha for your information. That news was new to me.

    I’m surprised, because, like Dark Dust, I thought that Haruhiko simply didn’t have interest in VK, didn’t consider them goth or associated to his music and scene.

    I can, to some extent, understand his frustration (as Flowers of Night said, in fact) at people getting confused in their minds between Eve of Destiny as a goth band, and the VK aspect. But I do think that to cancel a concert is too extreme, because that only alienates people. It’s something that should have needed more careful consideration before entering into the agreement. But who am I to lecture EoD on their management’s tactics?!

    I have always actually had an impression of Haruhiko as being quite a nice guy, which is why this did surprise me. People who have either met him at signings in earlier EoD times, or interviewed him, have without exception (in what I have read, anyway) said that he seemed to them a really nice person, and that’s also the impression I got from reading interviews. Of course, it’s not possible to tell much from such things, but all the same… it puzzles me. @_@

    Plus the fact that they have played in Europe some times, so, would it be only France where they might suffer from overabundance of VK fans??!

    Anyway, Camuflagem sums up well.

    Közi was one time asked what he thought about the visual scene in Japan. He said: “I don't follow what happens. I like to play music and for me it doesn't matter if I'm in a visual band or not as long as I like the music I make. So for me both visual and not-visual is OK. For me it feels the same to play in Malice and in Eve of Destiny, so I'm just continuing to do what I like.” Which seems like a… normal sort of attitude…

    Priss has a kind of point – if people just like EoD because of Közi and based on his links to MM and the VK scene, well, that’s pretty stupid. ~_~ Like a band for it’s own sake! (grrr…) I can totally see why that could be annoying for Haruhiko.

    As regards Közi, I don’t even really think whether he is ‘goth’ or ‘VK’. @_@ Who cares about such things? Look is just… look. Style. Whatever. Clothes and makeup are changeable – well duuh. It’s just a question of creating an appropriate atmosphere and style for the particular concert or photoshoot, which changes for each time (and of course, personal style changes from day to day, but I am just thinking of the ‘public face’ of the band). I agree with Navate in feeling that Közi generally just does what he wants to in that respect.

    Woah I wrote too much, didn’t I. >_<
     
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  15. Priss -member- -member-

    Priss
    Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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    Location: Castle Town
    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:59 pm

    I think to some extent alot of western fans of Japanese rock music have some kind of clouded image of goth/vk.

    Meaning, because they're Japanese they're VK. Goth music in Japan isn't that well known, so if they see a band with makeup on and they're from good 'ol Japan people have a tendency to stamp the VK label on their forehead, when that's not really right. I can't speak for them all, but the few bands I speak to have told me that they really don't like being called that term "Visual Kei" because they're not, one of the girls from Satanyanko said it was embarassing.

    The only reason that Eve of Destiny are being thrown into the VK pile isn't because of Kozi, it's because of their nationality. That's it. Think about it, if a band like Bauhaus or Siouxsie and the Banshee's were Japanese, they'd instantly be known as VK bands.

    I think it was Kaz and Geisha who brought up X, and that's a load of crock. X was never VK, I think. No one ever called Motley Crue, or WHITE SNAKE or any of those other hair metal bands Visual Kei. So saying X is, is kind of strange to me. ::kisaki::

    Like I said before, I respect Haruhiko. I think it's great that he's trying to put a line between Visual Kei and Goth. God knows I have corrected people who've said "so and so is visual". I honestly think it's a line that needs to be made, for fans and for bands aswell. If it means them losing fans, i'm sure they wouldn't mind so much. Why would you be a fan of a band just because you thought they were from a certain genre? Then, when they're not, you dump them? That's silly willy!

    Priss
     
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  16. Miz -member- -member-

    Miz
    Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:57 pm

    I actually respect Haruhiko's decision, because VK fans tend to be materialistic and more shallow.

    ....But on the other hand.. goth crowds have their own kind of annoyances. As with EVERY fanbase, so, why not just take one for the team? I guess we'll never know!
     
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  17. Amatsu -member-

    Amatsu
    Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:22 pm

    thise reminds me of how amused i am when people call Moi dix Mois VK... hahahahahahahahaha

    ... no :|
     
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  18. holylampposts -member-

    holylampposts
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:31 pm

    Amatsu~Naraku wrote:
    ...Wait, you mean it's not? ::meev::
     
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  19. Amatsu -member-

    Amatsu
    Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:41 pm

    holylampposts wrote:
    lol. I mean... I think its quite obvious, the difference between gothic and VK.

    VK is a style, how you look, and carry yourself, however, Gothic, can be a style, or a genre. I would put no band under then musical genre "visual kei" because i don't think any such genre exsists musically. What I love about Japanese music is that there is a large variety, many bands i don't even know what to call them.

    Moi dix Mois - Gothic Metal*, Classic influenced.

    Dir en Grey - Trash, Rock

    Malice Mizer - Gothic, Neo-Classical

    *Gothic Metal is not Gothic. if a band is Gothic Metal, you can't call them just Gothic, because there is such a huge difference. Gothic Metal is the same as Black metal.

    one band thats like impossible for me to genre-ize is Noir Fleurir.
     
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  20. holylampposts -member-

    holylampposts
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    Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:43 pm

    i was kidding. ::shifty::
     
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