Monologue Garden - Mo' Mana, Mo' Problems

Discussion in '† moi dix mois †' started by Iskanderia, Dec 2, 2010.

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  1. Cerceaux -tea party- -tea party-

    Joined: 14 Sep 2007
    Posts: 2540
    Location: Bed
    Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:03 pm

    She already said nothing happened at the event so looking at that other girl's blog isn't going to tell you anything. At this point there really isn't anything left to discuss unless she decides to elaborate on her earlier statements.
  2. BEAUXbelle -member- -member-

    Joined: 30 Nov 2012
    Posts: 7
    Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:58 pm

    I've been a fan for some years now but this is my first time ever posting here.

    Sarah seems a lot like a certain kind of fan I've become familiar with in other fandoms - particularly those Britney Spears fans who came to hate her after meet and greet experiences on her latest tour. Essentially, she fails to see that it can be very awkward for the artist, and they might act as such...since they're human. That's a shame.

    Anyway, I'm going to commit a little bit more to this website since it has a lot of information.

    Sorry if that's slightly off topic.
  3. Lempicka -member- -member-

    Joined: 02 Mar 2007
    Posts: 631
    Location: Paris (France)
    Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:45 pm

    New post !

    With google translate he seems to be talking about his outfit, and in the "PS" it seems that he's saying thank you for emails etc.
    If anyone has time to translate it would be awesome <3
    edit : Sarah translated the entry after all

    I personnally really like the picture *__* and I'm glad to read that he seems ok!

  4. Berserk -member- -member-

    Joined: 13 Apr 2006
    Posts: 2383
    Location: Michigan
    Posted: Sun Dec 2, 2012 12:17 am

    Woah he looks good. And I love that cardigan.

    ^^Probably the gayest thing I've ever said.

    But it's true.
  5. surfingspider -member- -member-

    Joined: 11 Dec 2005
    Posts: 330
    Location: Australia
    Posted: Sun Dec 2, 2012 5:48 am

    No cardigan like that in the crimea, but he wears it well. Maybe a lord raglan next time, but don't rip Burberry. I'd know.

    What a crazy storm the last pages were. Almost to the level of current Australian hung parliament politics. Glad it's over. It had better be over.

    Didn't mind manas bob haircut way back what, 50 pages ago. Nice print too.
  6. Mademoiselle Folie -member- -member-

    Mademoiselle Folie
    Joined: 17 Jul 2008
    Posts: 887
    Location: somewhere except here... ok, a clue... Mexico
    Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:44 am

    Well, I got lost in "real life" and come back to Mana's world to find out all this big drama O.O! LOL!!

    I can say nothing else but I'm sad for Sarah since she seemed to have had some bad situations lately (if you read her blog and twitter). Also, she seemed not been in the most accurate disposition in the day of the Secret Meeting (according to her report,she was like a mess, I don't pretend to offend her, but I just know exactly what is like to feel like that). Woke up late, was unable to organize, be early, arrived just on time and get into the room with Mana when she had all these emotional issues she probably has on her personal life when she sees him...

    I understand she's so devoted to him, in a way she do extra job (and more) for free not getting anything in exchange from Mana or Midi:Nette itself for all of her hard work and effort promoving and translating Mana's things. Maybe not in a conscient level, but I bet Sarah's being frustrated of spend all these time and money of her life in Mana and have absolutely nothing from him. I could happen.

    So, she's frustrated to the point when Mana do (or not do) something that he doesn't (or do) supposed to, that was like the drop that spread the water out of the cup...

    Anyway's, I know her from her forums and she's a nice and hard working girl. I just hope she could do well and the best choice she could ever had was staying apart from all the Mana-stuff for a while.

    The thread of this rumour it's over and (even though i'm really, REALLY, sad and quite disappointed about the Southamerican tour cancellation since I worked so hard on the fandom preparations) I think Mana has to be the same good, nerdy, gentle and cute-like man he has always been. :D

    Sorry, I just wanted to state my two cents XD
  7. eMiNaTiC -member- -member-

    Joined: 11 Dec 2004
    Posts: 1128
    Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:28 pm

    Mademoiselle Folie wrote:
    true dat.
    whatever, I'm still mad about that American tour that got cancelled several years ago, and i've never looked at Mana's face ever again since then, just from the neck down.
  8. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 13020
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:37 pm

    Oh Baby ::mana::
  9. MissUMana -member- -member-

    Joined: 28 Nov 2008
    Posts: 2367
    Location: Far away
    Posted: Mon Dec 3, 2012 4:40 pm

    eMiNaTiC wrote:
    So much effort, and all in vain... Poor Mana. :cry:
  10. Madmoiselle_Silk -night vision- night vision

    Joined: 22 Feb 2010
    Posts: 1839
    Location: Neverland
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 2:32 am

    I had a lot of reading to do last night, and about the whole Kamijo and translating thing;
    it's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. First off, how many foreigners buy the Japanese magazines? They're expensive as hell and unless you're rich, can read japanese or a die hard fan there's not that many reasons to buy them. That some people post translations can impossibly make the sales go down, I can say that personally I would NOT start buying every magazine Mana's in if translations wouldn't be available since I wouldn't be able to read it anyway. The bands should be happy that their words can reach people despite the language. Magazines aren't exactly like records... ::hora::
  11. Martine -member- -member-

    Joined: 25 Jan 2009
    Posts: 587
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 4:16 am

    In a certain way, I agree with you, Mademoiselle_silk. If kamijo asked his fans to stop posting translations only for a copyright reason, I woudn't say it's stupid but it's unfair.
    But, in fact, I am not sure that translations can't make the sales of the magazine go down. A lot of fans take scans of the magazine on internet and that's all. But, in this kind of figure, I'd say it's more a problem for the magazine seller than for Kamijo.
    In fact, I see in translations a problem more important than the copyright. It's the less of the meaning of the original through the successive translations. Even for people who are very good in Japanese, it's a difficult language to translate. The way of thinking is different. The problem is that, when someone posts a translation on internet, it is as if it was exactly what the author wrote and meant and often, it is not. Sometimes, there are not important changes but it already happened that yes. The translators between Japanese and English or french or ... always interpret according what they think the author meant. And their thought is not necessarily the same as the author thought.
    Even between two Japanese people, there are sometimes confusion. My Japanese cousin thinks Mana writes Japanese in an european way LOL
    When I didn't agree with the translation posted here, I asked him help. And often I received as answer : "What the hell does Mana mean ?" He gave me a translation but saying to me that he wasn't sure of Mana's thought.
    So, I can understand Kamijo. That's why I said once on this forum that Mana should have an official translator. It would prevent the differences of meaning.
    In addition to all of this, we could loose the original meaning due to successive translations. Japanese ==> English ==> French ==> Italian ==> Portuguese and etc etc That's the problem that we have with translated mangas and animes. The translations are often hilarious.
  12. faith -tea party- -tea party-

    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 5227
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 4:29 am

    Mana's lyrics are broken often. It does make it hard to translate.
    I try to run everything by my Japanese friend and she also says even for Japanese they do not make sense (and that the concepts are European).
    All she can do is say whether or not my translations are grammatical.

    But with interviews and the like I don't find there to be room for much confusion, as long as you have a good understanding of the language.
  13. Martine -member- -member-

    Joined: 25 Jan 2009
    Posts: 587
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 4:58 am

    I didn't speak about Mana's lyrics. They are poetic. So, it's more difficult of course.
    My cousin spoke to me about the european way to write Japanese of Mana about some entries in the past Monologue+Theater.

    Speaking about the interviews, I couldn't agree with you. Each one who translate Japanese, even if they have a good understanding of the language, translate them in a different way.
    I am not going to speak about me because I am far from being very good in Japanese. But my cousin and his daughters don't translate Mana's blog the same way Sarah does or the same way it was translated here. It even happened their translations varied among them. And though, they are all three fluent in Japanese, english and french. Japanese and english are both the first languages of my cousin (his parents form a mixed couple : Japanese-american) and he is fluent in french too. And his daughters have Japanese and french as first languages because their mum is my first cousin who is french speaking. So they have a good understanding of Japanese, english and french, all of three.

    I already found different translations of the same interview of the time of Malice Mizer on internet and I was sad that I hadn't the original because I didn't know what to think.
  14. surfingspider -member- -member-

    Joined: 11 Dec 2005
    Posts: 330
    Location: Australia
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 6:04 am

    The no translations/no photos/no you tube ( even when not taken in Japan and were allowed at that time) / no anything that is not directly controlled by the 'brand' has nothing to do to quality of the fan 'product' (especially if it is free and easily recognized as amateur or fan driven). It's all brand and economic control - despite the fallacy that foreign translation would lose sales (of the magazine, and maybe royalties to the brand).

    The industry is changing and bands will have to tour more to make their way. I've found that Japanese bands when they hit a level of popularity do a record and some shows then vanish until the members have run out of money and need to repeat the process. In this manasama (and old school groups) is different. Hes always working even if it might not be fast enough for some. I just wish he let go of the no camera thing and follow the lead of the Wiggles (a music and tv and DVD and more scores of millions of dollars powerhouse) who encourage it. Quality product will always generate revenue. Social media is a means to extend brand and it is better managed than attempt to deny it.
  15. PureElegance -eternite- eternite

    Joined: 05 Jul 2006
    Posts: 4655
    Location: In Klaha's Closet
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 8:23 am

    surfingspider wrote:
    LOL, I get your point, but I totally laughed when I read this XD Just the idea of Mana and the Wiggles in a sentence...
    seijaku no yami niiiii~

    I agree about the social media thing. What I'll never understand is Viacom taking down Spongebob videos (even only clips, I've had two taken down myself). How does that make the show popular in any way? Especially for new generations, how will they be exposed? Because I don't think TV is enough.
    And it's depriving us of good television to say the least.

  16. Wandering_Fox -current- -current-

    Joined: 15 Dec 2004
    Posts: 3266
    Location: Sitting in the Cookie Chair
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 11:48 am

    I've seen a lot of rival translations, but I don't think that's always a language issue, as understanding varies from person to person. Have you ever gone with someone to a movie in your native language and you both got completely different things out of the movie? I think it's like that. Same with songs in your native language. I think the lyrics more often than not mean different things to different people. (Imagine trying to translate something like "Tainted Love" or the poem "Snow" by Archibald Lampman, for example) It's easy to translate the literal word-for-word way, but I think that's not very helpful. When I translate, I know that I try to interpret what I read. For example:

    "Ookina kabe ni senoboshite kaita futari no kotoba ga ima de wa sotto boku wo miagete yashashiku hohondekureru" (from Premier Amour ::meev:: )

    Literally it means "The words that we stretched our backs to write on a big wall together now gaze gently up at me and smile", but by the way it's written, I would assume that they wrote the words a long time ago when they were young and had to stretch up high to write them. Now when he comes back to see them again, since he has grown and this was probably a long time ago, he has to look down to see the words and he seems them as a nostalgic memory of a happier time. Translating another language takes a lot of your own personal feelings.

    When I read Kurai's translations ages ago, I thought those were completely accurate, but then after I started studying Japanese, I realized that he was translating songs differently than I would. That doesn't mean either of us were right or wrong, but we both got different things out of the songs~ :cool:

    Articles and interviews sound pretty straightforward, but they can be difficult when the artists talk about their own personal feelings, inspirations, cultural references, movie quotes that you'd totally know if you were Japanese but no one else gets them, obscure Gundam quotes in the case of Kozi... ::zoom::

    Yeah, if Mana joined the Japanese Wiggles that would pretty much be the best thing ever, especially if it turns out that he was the man behind the Maru Maru Mori Morisong ::meev::
  17. Cerceaux -tea party- -tea party-

    Joined: 14 Sep 2007
    Posts: 2540
    Location: Bed
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 12:32 pm

    surfingspider wrote:
    Personally, I hate when cameras are allowed at concerts.
    What happens is every douchebag in the audience sticks their camera/phone up in the air, so my view is totally obscured by little glowing screens showing a miniature version of what I paid $30+ to watch. The next day YouTube is flooded with 500 identical shitty recordings, where all you can hear is a bunch of people screaming. What's the point? Why can't people just enjoy a concert without having to obsessively record every second of it?

    However, I think it would be a good idea for bands themselves to record more of their concerts, either to release on DVD, or just post on their own official YouTube or something (in the case of a lower-quality recording). This would help appease the fan-cam people, while still allowing the band to control their image and promote themselves.
  18. Martine -member- -member-

    Joined: 25 Jan 2009
    Posts: 587
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 1:43 pm

    I totally agree with you Cerceaux ^^

    @ Wandering-Fox : I wonder if, sometimes, the interpretations wouldn't be too much pushed on. After all, the author is not there to say if we join his/her mind or not. It's normal to interpret what we read in any language and you are right one translation is not better than another, except for problems of grammar etc. The problem is not for song's translation. I think it's a "world" where we can put a lot of our own feelings when we translate them ^^ But for interviews, written one or oral one, posts on blogs, it's different, except if it is in a poetic writing.
    Sometimes, it could bring some confusions. In life too anyway, not only in translations of artist's works ^^ The other day, I had a professionnal meeting with a dutch speaking man. We discuss together in french about my projects and after we had a meeting with another dutch speaking people to who he explained in dutch what we had just discussed about. Hapilly I understood what he said. He misinterpretated my words. What he said in dutch to the third person was not what I had explained him in french before. I think he pushed too much of his feeling in his words because he absolutely wanted to convince the third person but it wasn't what I meant.
  19. yun -member- -member-

    Joined: 03 Mar 2006
    Posts: 2156
    Location: france
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 3:22 pm

    Cerceaux wrote:
    I couldn't agree more! <3

    As for translation I think it's really hard, in don't know how it is for japanese but for my case english is something that I can understand very easily but then translating it is difficult. Sometimes my mother wants to know what the song I'm singing is about because it's lovely but in english and she doesn't undertand. And when I translaten is often sounds so wrong XD It seems like I don't understand english XD
  20. PureElegance -eternite- eternite

    Joined: 05 Jul 2006
    Posts: 4655
    Location: In Klaha's Closet
    Posted: Tue Dec 4, 2012 4:43 pm

    yun wrote:
    Don't worry, I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes if I'm with friends and they overhear someone speaking Spanish (usually a worker), they're like, "You know Spanish, what did he say?" And even though I understood it, I still have to think about it and be like "Well... *what's the word*..." and it sounds like I have no idea XD

    Sir Soo wrote:
    I'm so guilty of taking a million pictures of things. I can just see it now...

    Cerceaux: *at a Kanon Wakeshima concert with PE* Omg, she's on stage now!!!
    PE: *pulls out camera at the speed of light, hitting Cerceaux on the head and knocking her out.*

    I've never really noticed that arm thing though, but maybe it's because I don't really go to smaller concerts most of the time, usually they're in arenas or something. I just wish more Spongebob clips were on youtube.

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