Discussion in '-off topic-' started by flowersofnight, May 30, 2012.
Geez, PE, way to write a dissertation
A really great movie that everyone should watch is Farewell, My Concubine. It shows the lives of two Chinese opera singers as they lived under the Qing Dynasty and through the "Cultural Revolution". It's highly critical of both old China and the Revolution, and depicts the good and bad (but mostly bad XD) that many people went through during those times.
I like to think of that movie as the Chinese Gone With the Wind, because they're both really dramatic historical epics that use personal stories to illustrate the cultural/societal upheavals that happened during their respective time periods. And they're both like 3 hours long XD
LOL, sorry it's just that this issue is such a big deal here and I hear about this every single day that even my head is starting to hurt from thinking about it There's so much info here, plus with my classes it always turns into a three hour discussion on questions like, "What is free speech?" "What is an NGO?"
@Berserk: Sorry! This issue is so complicated though, I can't really talk about it in a one-liner or something ::kisaki:: When people say "the revolution" it doesn't only mean the Cultural Revolution, which happened later in Mao's rule from 1966~71. The CCP was already in power since 1949, before that there was a lot already going on, but I'm not sure why people think the communist revolution automatically means the Cultural Revolution (not talking about you specifically). There are so many phases @_@
Another book I'd recommend is "Spider Eaters," a memoir written by a woman, whose parents were high ranking comrades, who was an aristocratic young girl during 1949 and became a Red Guard during the 1960s Cultural Revolution. It's really interesting since she actually did do pig farm labor, traveled around spreading propaganda, and even took part of the violence at the time. She's honest with what she admits to doing. Her memoir goes back and forth from her memories to her current feelings about what happened and it's pretty balanced. She feels as if it was the best and worst time of her life, which is interesting. I haven't read it yet, but I've always heard it's really great, moving, sad, and complicated!
Last night I had an amazing time. I went to a photography event which was so interesting. One of the photographers documented her own self-harm along with others who did the same thing, it was so profound. Afterwards though I met up with two guys, both of whom I sort of but not really knew from classes, and they said I'm welcome to join them for dinner. We walked around the European buildings, but at the spur of the moment we decided to go to 1933 because it wasn't too far. Oh man, getting there was incredible. I walked through the normal, real neighborhoods and alleyways and I loved it. We walked, took the subway, and walked more through these neighborhoods. The memories of what I saw when taking glances through doors and windows are so vivid. I wish I had taken more pictures because it was all so real.
1933 is an old slaughterhouse for cows that now has restaurants in it (still pretty deserted though), and it's SUCH a cool building. It's like a maze of cement stairs, angles, and air bridges and we got lost a few times.
http://www.lacasapark.com/la/2011/11/th ... -shanghai/
I'm so glad I went
Double posting because I was wondering: what do you all think about men holding doors for women?
My friend had an experience this morning where a cop would not walk in through the door she was holding and they got into a mini-standoff and she's upset about it and wrote a long rant on FB.
"I was raised to hold doors for women."
"I was raised learning about equality and politeness."
"It's not about putting women on a pedestal, it's about being respectful to women."
"Well, I learned that the first person to the door holds it."
"That's very nice. I'll just wait for my partner."
I think he was going way overboard with this by not walking through, it's kind of silly, but I'm just wondering about the men-opening-door-for-women thing by itself, without any dumbness (like the refusal to walk through a door because a woman is holding LOL).
I hold doors for anyone out of common courtesy and I don't think twice about it (even if it's a heavy door and I'm dying). So I guess I believe in general politeness. But if a guy holds the door open (for whatever reason, could be the timing, politeness, etc) I'm not going to get upset with him and assume he's sexist, which I've seen women get upset about in public and I feel bad when I see that. Like, a man will hold open a door for a woman and she'll go, "I can hold it myself!" Jeez.
The other day one of my Swedish classmates and I came to the door and before the awkward pause set in he opened the door and gestured for me to enter with his free hand. Oh man, that was nice. That was totally common courtesy though.
I get annoyed when women get all defensive/indignant when a guy holds a door open. It's like... it's not all about you, lady; it's common courtesy not to slam the door on the person behind you.
agreed! I mean, if there's a guy or a girl jst behind me, I'll hold the door, it's just common cortesy as you said!
I moved to Spain for 3 months for a Translation internship! OF COURSE, I chose one of the coldest part of the country it doesn't reach 10° C .
When I see a real "strong, independent woman" lawyer coming, I run ahead and actually hold the door shut. Then when she pushes on it I pretend like I'm getting overpowered and let the door open, and then kind of hang my head in shame like I'm embarrassed for being weak. It never fails, they always walk through with a spring in their step like they just singlehandedly broke through the glass ceiling for all womankind. It's a little thing, but I just love to spread happiness XD
Post of the month right here
Best answer to those females who can't see the world as something else than a battlefield where men and women will and should fight over everything and anything. Sheer waste of time, and damn stupidity too, when a little teasing on both sides is all that is needed to make the world go round.
Oh I hate you!! Why is "strong, independent woman" in quotes?
I also like the you opening the door for yourself and me sneaking under your arm to go through. That puts a spring in my step, totally.
I can see we're all deeply examining the action here My friend was even talking about Mary Wollstonecraft's 'Vindication of the Rights of Women'' and how womanly virtues are centered around being helpless. I never thought about it that way before
Yeah, I actually feel embarrassed for women in general and I kind of want to tell the man, "We're not all like that, I swear!"
On NYU Secrets (where there are loads of depressing, funny, uplifting, weird, etc types of secrets posted) there's one comment to the secret that I think is somewhat relevant.
Ramond Gonzalaz: Doesn't it feel so natural and right
I wanted to go "RAWR" at that guy, hahahaha. I don't think there's anything wrong with making sandwiches for boyfriends, but I get what she means since it's such a stereotypical pig thing and there you are doing it XD Sometimes when I'm cooking I'll sometimes think to myself, "Wow, I feel like a..."... I'm not even going to say it
See, I'm not a feminist. I expect EVERYONE to hold the door open for me and if they don't they're an egotistical bastard. Likewise, I hold it for everyone else. In Japan it's a little different though - door holding isn't a thing there so I accept it.
When men tease me I roll my eyes and think a little less of them though.
So I realized if I hadn't kept Michapi she probably would have been put to sleep. That SUCKS. My poor little kitty...I saved her. My facebook friend decided it would be a good idea to post a mountain of cat corpses from kill shelters to convince people to sterilize their animals and DAMN if I haven't done that already. I'm so mad at her - way to ruin my evening.
The feminist part comes in because of the men who purposely open the door for you because you're a woman and other things like that. It's not about holding the door for anyone, but men doing it for women for a specific reason related to her gender. Like that cop, he wouldn't even walk through because a woman was holding the door. When it's just about common courtesy it's normal, but when it's done only because you're a woman then my feminist senses start tingling and I have to think about what's happening.
I don't know if it's a thing here to open doors, I don't think I noticed. I don't think anyone's opened the door for me except for the guards downstairs, they're really nice. But in other places no one's near the door so I just open it. I'll have to do an in-depth research paper on opening doors in China.
I don't expect anyone to open a door for me so whenever it happens I'm always happily surprised.
WHAT. Why?? I don't mind being teased if it's fun, and believe me, men have teased me countless times XD
But you know Corinne, she teases me but it's not good. It makes me feel weird and so I don't want to hang out as much with her outside of classes anymore. I don't know why she calls me ridiculous and says I'm embarrassing as if it were a joke. And why do my actions reflect anything on her anyway? It's SO weird, but it just shows how socially awkward she is. It's not funny after you say it a million times. I'm used to being teased in the good way, for fun, and I always laugh and tease back, but her type of "teasing" is more like criticism and lack of self-esteem so it's not fun.
And I'm sorry but she still smells XD
I think it had more to do with his uniform than his gender. In a holding-the-door scenario, there is a subtle implication that the person you're holding the door for needs your help or something.
When you're a cop or soldier, or anyone who's charged with defending the public, I think it would be awkward to let civilians hold doors for you for that reason. After all, you're the public servant--you're supposed to be the strong one who helps others. I can imagine how it would subtly feel like you're not doing your job or something if you're a cop and you let someone hold the door for you like that.
Even though I think people should hold the door for anyone, regardless of gender, I'm not sure why feminists are bothered by this. Basically, you have a dude who thinks it's okay to be rude to other dudes but still thinks they need to be polite for women, children, the elderly, etc.
I don't see it as sexist treatment for women as much as a disregard for common courtesy when it comes to interacting with other men. Basically they're thinking, "Oh, it's just a dude. Let him deal with it *door slam*"
You're probably right.
Makes sense too. It takes some nerve to be deliberately rude to who is supposedly more vulnerable than you are.
Ugh, I HATE when people do that. I have an adopted pet too, and it's like...I did my part.
Blogging a bunch of depressing photos of dead animals isn't going to accomplish anything. The people who are upset by that stuff are not part of the problem. It's just dumb lazy slacktivism.
Yeah, I think it was going overboard because instead of walking through at all he just waited and walked around inside, I mean c'mon, but I didn't think it was a big deal to rant about sexism. At the same time, if he was a normal man and not a cop, I'd be thinking he was seriously weird.
The main thing is "root" of that, which is chivalry, the damsel in distress kind of thing. I don't have such a problem with it much either (go ahead, KILL ME XD), but it's the implication that women don't have enough strength to do something so men do it for them. I quote from a website, it's not representative of everyone's opinions of course, but here's just one I found right now.
It's similar to the whole "man pays for dinner thing." I don't mind that if the guy actually wants to, I wouldn't get upset, but I know some would be upset if you insisted on paying for dinner or something because of the implication that she can't pay for herself. I think it's the root of everything, when women weren't able to work and afford to pay for themselves, where these dating practices come from, so it bothers some to continue this way even if we're far from that time.
Or when some men walk on the side of the street facing the road. Not saying all feminists are like that though, it's not as if you can group them all together.
But, Berserk, why is it okay to be rude to guys though? Why not treat everyone equally? That's my problem and isn't that sexist treatment too? To only treat women (he said he was raised to hold doors for women in particular and we all know this is a traditional thing to do) politely, which has roots in that whole "women are the delicate sex" thing?
The reason he didn't go through the door at all was because a woman was holding it, which he said himself, but if it were a man, he would've gone through. Also if she had identified as a man I doubt he would've taken her seriously. I feel like that's a kind of sexist upbringing, to treat women like that and be impolite to men, but he shouldn't be treating anyone impolitely on account of their gender, which is what he's doing. You said "Oh, it's just a dude. Let him deal with it *door slam*" --- isn't that differentiating treatment based on sex?
Right? Someone who's cold enough to abandon their pet on the street isn't going to change their ways just because they see a photo of dead animals. Either they knew what would happen already, or they are so into themselves that they won't give it a second glance.
That's one of the many things I cannot forgive about France. A LOT of pet abandonment here. And speaking of, another thing. It snowed two inches so they stopped the buses for the day. Ooooh look at me I'm Parisian and I can't go outside in the scary snow!
I can't decide if they're wusses, or if they're lazy and using it as an excuse not to work.
I'm in an especially unforgiving mood because the Post Office was supposed to open at 8 today and I went at 8h15 and they still didn't have their shit together enough to open the damn door. God I will be happy when I move.
But you said you hold the door for everyone, regardless of gender. Do you think the people you hold the door for don't have enough strength?
I didn't say it was, did I? XD
And honestly, almost all the guys I've ever run into on campus hold the door for other guys so I kind of feel like we're talking about a myth here anyway.
Guys are more prone to be rude around each other in some cases for a number of reasons--sometimes it's a "brotherly" dynamic, sometimes it's a rivalry dynamic. In those types of relationships it's not very advantageous to be classically "polite" or helpful because it can make you seem like the submissive one in the relationship. Or it can be insulting to the other guy, because he may have something to prove and doesn't want to seem like he "needs" your help.
That's a seriously black-and-white oversimplification of things, but you get the idea.
With women, children, the elderly, etc., there's almost no chance of a guy having that kind of relationship, so they're almost guaranteed to treat those people with common courtesy that they might not have for other men their age.
People don't treat all demographics the same because, in terms of their relationship to those sorts of people, their relationships simply aren't the same. I mean, why don't you go taking your dad to shop for purses with you? Doesn't he deserve to be treated equally to your girlfriends? You don't do it (or I hope, for his sake, that you don't XD) because your relationship to him is different in very fundamental, inalienable ways. And yeah, his sex is probably a part of that. But you don't consider it sexist to treat him differently, do you?
That may have been what he said, but I have a hard time imagining a cop letting me hold the door open for him like that either. He would probably just grab the door and nod or say, "go ahead" or something.
I think it's also important to distinguish between the two different door-holding methods
There's the kind where you step aside and let the person walk past you through the door, and then there's the kind where you just hold it open long enough as you go through so the person behind you can grab it before it closes. The former is way more formal and a bigger deal than the latter I'd say, and it sounds like that was what that girl was doing to the cop. I've quit holding doors like that altogether unless the person behind me seems disabled or something, because most of the time no one is willing to let people hold doors for them like that. If you're persistent it just turns into an awkward argument where you're both like "no, you go ahead! No, really! Just go!"
I'm not saying *I* think that way, I just hold it for everyone regardless and I don't think about men's strength or whatever XD When men open the door for me though and making a point of it, it's like I was transported to ancient times. I don't find it upsetting though or feel offended.
Someday I want a man to stand when I come in the room XD
Politeness = submissiveness, yeah XD That's funny.
But I go shopping all the time with my dad. What's your point? I don't go purse shopping though in general, I mostly buy them online, get them as gifts, or get them on the go. But he's actually mostly the reason I have lovely clothes. He buys a lot for me even when I don't ask and he has excellent taste so I always trust his advice when we go shopping for clothes for each other. I love his suits and color combinations too! I don't see what's so wrong or weird about shopping with your father, I've had some of my best times doing so. Why is there something against this? Because he's a man and we have those assumptions that men can't shop or cook or put effort into how they look or whatever because it's supposedly not "manly"? o_O I'm actually kind of upset right now thinking about this.
He's especially patient with me when I'm trying to find the right pair of shoes. I can take forever doing that XD It's like the one thing I take hours to do, I can get so indecisive when it comes to shoes.
I'd write more but I have to finish editing this photo which I'm feeling totally uninspired about! Oh, the hardships of an artiste~
My point about purse shopping with your father is just that there are some gender-specific things people tend to do that aren't necessarily sexist. That example clearly doesn't apply to you, but it doesn't change the fact that we do different things with different age groups/genders/etc. and it doesn't mean that we think that demographic is privileged/inferior or anything like that.
I don't think shopping in general is unmanly--I actually like clothes shopping myself. But I thought purse shopping would be a universally-accepted female activity XD
So what makes you so sure that men ever felt that way about it? Hmmm? Hmmm?
It's actually a pretty silly assumption to make. I mean, obviously women are strong enough to open their own doors. Holding the door is just a matter of basic courtesy rather than "OHMIGOD YOU LOOK SO WEAK LET ME GET THIS FOR YOU YOU WEAKLING!"
But men don't always extend those basic courtesies to other men their age, for the reasons I stated above. It's not like when they see another man coming behind them that they're thinking, "Yeah, you have a penis like me so I'm showing that you're part of our privileged boys' club by letting you get the door on your own," you know? XD That's just ridiculous.
Have you never seen a group of boys before? In that context, it totally does XD
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