The A/V Thread

Discussion in '-off topic-' started by Madmoiselle_Silk, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:14 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    Is that any good as a capture program? I thought it was more for streaming.

    EDIT: and for that matter, what model VCR are you using? Does Sony have any models with TBC?
     
    #41
  2. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 103
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:19 pm

    It is designed for streaming, but it also allows full HD capture...I guess so that streamers can upload content to YouTube after their stream. It worked flawlessly for me.
     
    #42
  3. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 103
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:27 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    I used a Sony SLV-N71. Not sure if that has a tbc, to be honest, but it did a great job and didn't break or eat a single tape.
     
    #43
  4. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 506
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:38 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    Cool, I had no idea ! I'm glad that these kinds of conservation efforts have been in place <3. I was using VLC with some difficulty to rip my VHS tapes, if you don't mind providing your OBS parameters I would greatly appreciate it :). (But, it's far from being urgent) Good luck on finding your hosting platform ! (By curiosity, do you know much all of your rips weight GB wise in total ? I'm quite intrigued) Also.. I have no idea what platforms you have considered so far, but I think Mega is well respected in music forums. The only issue I would consider seeing with it is that.. we could repeat the same mistake we did with MegaUpload, by expecting it to never shut down. Your message is so exciting, can't wait to hear more from your side regarding your ripping and hosting process :).

    Edit :

    By pure curiosity is KuraiKat the same person that was referred as "Kurai" ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
    #44
  5. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 103
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:36 pm

    heutre wrote:
    Without any transcodes/demux (ripping videos to audio files), it's sitting at around 90GB or so. Keep in mind though, that the majority is VHS rips, which are pretty lightweight. Most of those VHSes had multiple full shows on them, so it was painstaking.

    heutre wrote:
    Yep. He's gone by many names over the years. He was KuraiKat in the late 90's/early 2000's. Probably most notable for his "Kurai's Translations" page, but he was also really deep in the bootleg scene. It still boggles my mind how he was able to get his hands on so much stuff, especially back then.
     
    MorganIvy and heutre like this.
    #45
  6. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 506
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:46 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    Oh my, I must be doing things real wrong then, my original rips in the AVI format make 50 minute footage weight around 60gb lol, crazy stuff. (I wouldn't recommend VLC from my personal experience, so far it's been unreliable and a somewhat unpredictable in its results.. I'll try OBS, maybe I'll have a better experience with it)


    ketsurui wrote:
    Thanks for the additional information :) I was always curious about them, since I've seen their name around for quite a while. I never wanted to inquire much since it's a bit intrusive ahah. As far as I've heard he "left" the scene right ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
    #46
  7. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 103
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:18 pm

    heutre wrote:
    Yeah, I unfortunately have restored my machine since I did all the ripping, so I don't have any settings stored. What I CAN tell you based on the videos codec info, is that the VHSes are encoded at 480p, with 30fps h264 AVC for video, and AAC HQ for audio. A 45 minute video clocks in at 900MB.

    heutre wrote:
    That's what he made it sound like when I talked to him. He's a family man now, and just kinda lost interest from what I gathered. He's a really nice guy, and he's done so much for the community. I had purchased a few bootlegs from him back in the day (some of which are the more common ones floating around now), and I reached out to him to see if I could buy some more. He told me he was about to toss everything out because he didn't have any room for them anymore, so I offered to buy everything. He declined money, and just asked that I digitize everything and get it out for more people to appreciate. I've spent the last 2 years ripping it all.
     
    MorganIvy, Js_klaus and heutre like this.
    #47
  8. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 506
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:40 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    Thanks for the information. It'll save me some trouble that's sure !


    ketsurui wrote:
    Wow, that's a really interesting story. That's quite a legacy to be honest, at least on here. (Whatever that means down the line) Thanks for taking it seriously, and dedicating yourself to that task, I can't wait to see what'll be readily available once you're done. Although the quest for rare material is still a bit fun, it's nice to think that the bands we've enjoyed on here won't be as hard to access as they've been in the past.
     
    ketsurui likes this.
    #48
  9. Js_klaus -eternite- eternite

    Js_klaus
    Joined: 02 Apr 2012
    Posts: 471
    Location: Colombia
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:17 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    sorry for the dm, I didn't notice in time ::kozi::
     
    #49
  10. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:58 pm

    heutre wrote:
    I'm guessing you didn't set any compression XD
     
    #50
  11. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 506
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    I have no idea what would make you assume that. ahahah (But for real I thought that was the right thing to do ? And the worse part is that those are times that it worked, on other instances VLC would just crash halfway -_-... especially shitty if you're ripping something that's hours long)

    Unrelated note : I find it particularly absurd that in the Art Marju Duchain/Mana set there's like this intense goth synthy introduction that's ruined by a squeaky noise made by the recording person probably just rumaging around on their bag and like rubbing the microphone on something ? It's so unpleasant lmao
     
    #51
  12. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:12 pm

    heutre wrote:
    Back in the old days you would rip without compression (or with a very fast minimal compressor like Huffyuv) and then compress afterward, but these days computers are powerful enough to compress it right off the wire. Or at least, mine is - your mileage may vary ::batsu::

    Incidentally, I use Virtualdub's capture mode for ripping.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #52
  13. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 506
    Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:25 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    Ish, I don't know, I think these specs might be pushing it.
    Screenshot from 2020-04-22 22-21-58.png
    (I can't believe you use such old software, I got weary once I got an alert that the website didn't use https lol)

    I have Linux and OSX for my PCs so I won't be able to try that, but I'll stay intrigued lol
     
    #53
  14. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:16 pm

    heutre wrote:
    It's still pretty much the state of the art. Video capture hasn't changed that much over the years, and all the best hardware for it is pretty old too. Ripping analog media is very much a niche interest now.
     
    ketsurui likes this.
    #54
  15. cardy -member- -member-

    cardy
    Joined: 03 Nov 2004
    Posts: 279
    Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:41 pm

    I just saw this thread, I used to capture with Virtualdub as well. When I capture with the ADVC-100, I use the lightweight WinDV.

    My VHS transferring setup is a JVC SVHS-9800U, DataVideo TBC-1000 and ADVC-100.
    I actually purchased both of these things new in 2003 or 2004.

    Back then I was pretty religiously following the videohelp.com forums and specifically a user called LordSmurf who is the perhaps the most knowledgeable about VHS transferring. He eventually started his own website Digitalfaq.com where, to this day, he posts and responds:
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/

    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

    I don't recall my A-B testing with and without the TBC-1000 but I believed it did it's job that I kept it permanently plugged inbetween the SVHS player and capturing device.
    The SVHS deck has quite a few options. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

    When I've captured original tapes, the above setup results in what I believe are excellent results and the best I can achieve to transferring that VHS to being visually lossless.
    With tapes that are multi-generation copies, it can be hit or miss. If you exclude the visual defects that are baked into the video which can not be fixed at all, the visual defects be created by the VHS or the playing device are the ones you're trying to minimize.
    From my research on the above forums, and mainly from Lord Smurf, if your player and TBC combo doesn't work, sometimes trying a different player may give better results.


    For a little while I had access to a Blackmagic capture card, I believe it was a Decklink model from 2008-2010, and I would capture directly into Virtualdub using Huffyuv.
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink

    I think old or base models would be more than sufficient for VHS capturing and should be cheap since they're relatively obsolete since newer models focus on 4K or 8K input/output.

    Even though most modern capture cards can capture directly to h.264 at a high bitrate which is sufficient for most things, I still like the idea of capturing somewhat losslessly and letting the encoder (Handbrake or Adobe Media Encoder) choose a CQ value or 2-pass VBR to make an optimized encode that will give scenes the most bitrate to reduce macroblocking. Likewise for the audio. A CBR audio maxed out could work but there's also ways to encode the untouched audio into FLAC.
     
    #55
  16. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:33 pm

    cardy wrote:
    Was the TBC-1000 really better than the onboard TBC in the VCR? I'm using a Mitsubishi SVHS deck with built-in line TBC.
    I did actually once get a black AVT-8710 but it didn't work right, and I ended up returning it. Not surprised at all to read in your article that they're all defective XD
    Is there any good way to strip Macrovision without spending $2000 on a secondhand TBC at this point?

    As for Decklink: all those Decklink devices seem to want to convert everything into SDI first (via a separate device), and I can't find anything online about whether that conversion is better or worse than doing an ordinary rip. Any thoughts?
     
    #56
  17. cardy -member- -member-

    cardy
    Joined: 03 Nov 2004
    Posts: 279
    Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:22 am

    Yes, the TBC-1000 technically can do better and different things than the built-in TBC in the VCR. I don't recall my A-B testing since this was long ago so I don't recall if it was amazingly better or just a little better.

    Here's an excerpt by Lord Smurf:


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    S-VHS VCR Line TBC:

    Found in commonly suggested VCRs, but unlike the standalone TBC, this type of timebase corrector will:
    • NOT give a continual clean signal out from the VCR
    • NOT remove anti-copy signals, by replacing those often-dirty areas with new clean data
    • NOT help much with vertical "picture bounce" jitter -- in fact it can sometimes increase the amount of jitter
    What it will do, however, is clean the visual quality, by:
    • removing or reducing chroma noise (the red/blue colored mist found in all VHS tape formats)
    • removing geometric distortions from the image, such as the wiggling appearance of older video, as if viewed through a rippling pond or bathtub (aka "horizontal" jitter)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Source: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html


    $2000 is crazy for the TBC-1000. I paid the original price of $300 back then and I don't think it's worth paying those crazy prices now.
    Lord Smurf is actually selling a Cypress CDM-8120 which looks to be a clone of the AVT-8710 for $450 as of this month:
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8243-sale-tbc-1000-a.html

    I can't vouch for that model and haven't done further research but I trust nearly everything Lordsmurf says technically and I'm sure you can write him to ask him more questions.

    Besides a TBC, I'm unsure of what other remove Macrovision protection. For some reason I thought the ADVC has a secret option to remove Macrovision as well?
    https://forums.afterdawn.com/threads/mini-faq-macrovision-cheat-for-the-canopus-advc100.290888/

    If not, there might be cheap devices that filter out the Macrovision protection but I'm unsure of this method and if there are any drawbacks or not:
    https://www.amazon.com/XDIMAX-GREX-7-4-Grex-Video-Stabilizer/dp/B0096I2DNE

    The old Decklink I used came with a breakout cable bundle which would connect to the multipin input. This cable would have all of the analog cables necessary to connect input / output to traditional RCA devices.
    https://i.imgur.com/6TddQIe.png

    I don't have any direct captures to look at from this setup, they're probably buried on harddrives somewhere, but I recall being in heaven looking at these feeds. With the capture card not adding any additional compression or noise to the signal, it was pretty much lossless with the Huffyuv codec.

    And lastly, here is a transfer I did of Kuroyume's Deep Under tape.
    https://mega.nz/folder/cF4UEaiC#sL34-a6Kxra82z5Vb7d0cg

    I have the original VHS and I transferred it via the SVHS > TBC-1000 > ADVC-100 > 59.94 mp4. The tape contains Hi-Fi audio which is higher than normal VHS audio quality.
    I feel like this is the best results I can achieve with my current setup and an original VHS tape. You can compare it to the kuraikat copy to see...perhaps what the total combination of a SVHS and TBC can do.
    The kuraikat copy has many visual artifacts and screen tearing that could either be baked in their from previous gens or that is just degradation of the tape.
    kuraikat's copy might be a little sharper but when I transfer my tapes I chose to turn off sharpening features as I feel that it adds more noise than brings back actual detail. I also don't do post sharpening in software although I should probably think of doing that in the future.
     
    flowersofnight and heutre like this.
    #57
  18. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:46 am

    cardy wrote:
    Yeah but... composite-only? ::meev::
    I saw someone else on there sold a full-featured Cypress model a few months back for like $900. ::cred:: A bit steep if you ask me.

    I'll have to check on that ADVC thing, they seem to imply that it's only the 100 specifically (and not the 110 that I have) but no one seems to have specifically tried this.

    Also, for the rest of you bystanders, that same guy is selling some ATI capture cards:
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/marketplace/8253-sale-ati-600-a.html

    EDIT: oh, another question for the viewers at home: any thoughts on capturing through the capture card vs. routing it separately to a sound card? I always just use the capture card for both A and V.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    #58
  19. cardy -member- -member-

    cardy
    Joined: 03 Nov 2004
    Posts: 279
    Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:32 am

    flowersofnight wrote:
    Composite to S-video should be easy to adapt? I don't recall if the quality drops versus s-video to s-video.
    I would check with my ADVC-100 but all of my gear is far away in storage.

    I never actually thought of capturing audio via a soundcard. I've captured vinyl and cassettes with soundcards but not VHS audio. I've always had the unfounded opinion that the audio quality was just less than CD quality and that the RCA cables and video capture card would do a more than adequate job at capturing audio.
     
    #59
  20. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12647
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:09 am

    cardy wrote:
    Oh yes, S-Video has two signals on two wires for video whereas composite just has one (and component has three)
    I hope you were using S-Video end-to-end when you were doing ripping ::erm::

    cardy wrote:
    Yeah I sort of assumed the same, that whatever's in the capture card is good enough, but I saw some people on Digitalfaq mentioning separate audio cards. Not sure if it really matters or if it's just a sort of belt-and-suspenders approach.
     
    #60