The Music Industry Thread

Discussion in '-off topic-' started by heutre, May 5, 2020.

  1. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 497
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 11:49 am

    I wish artists would stop doing physical only releases, like.. 25USD (when you're lucky) + Shipping + Import tax for a couple of tracks has always seemed disproportionate to me. I would prefer to just buy the tracks directly and give them exactly the same profits they'd get from the physical release, since as far as I know a considerable part of the fees come from the manufacturing process ? Also I don't know about y'all but my collection pretty much only collects dust and takes up space that highers my rent lol. I only end up ripping them and storing them forever. (Also a lot of new physical releases don't even have an elaborate lyric book or wtv, so it's not even that worth it anymore to go through all that)

    Also I'm confident they'd probably come up with more material (which down the line is what I value most) if every single thing they released didn't represent a potential risk from debt from having to buy all those CD's in bulk so the CD isn't too expensive to the customer.

    Edit : also the environmental cost of that whole supply chain for only a couple of hours of entertainement (if the CD is that good) is a waste of material and resources in my opinion lol
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    #1
  2. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 12:39 pm

    heutre wrote:
    I don't know for sure, but I think part of the reason Japanese CDs are customarily so expensive is because of the flourishing rental market there. Like, that's where the price has to be set to make money from the people who actually buy them.
    I think JASRAC plays a role in this too, they take their cut. Hirasawa actually quit them (around the time of "P-MODEL OR DIE"), which is nearly unheard-of for a major artist, because he couldn't get a straight answer out of them over what they were doing with the money XD
    And yes, I'll continually bring up my Teen Idol in unrelated threads if I want, that's a moderator's prerogative ::meev:: But we can spin this off to a "Music Industry Thread" if anyone wants.

    heutre wrote:
    If Hora can afford his batches of 500 CDs, it's not that big a deal ::meev:: I think the other production costs like studio time and mastering are more expensive.
     
    MorganIvy and heutre like this.
    #2
  3. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 102
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 12:45 pm

    heutre wrote:
    I agree as long as physical media doesn't entirely go away. The problem is, content delivery networks are still relatively expensive for hosting media that isn't mainstream. Pricing is tiered, so for someone like Kaya who has a very targeted audience, he might end up paying 10x the price for hosting as someone like The Beatles, who everyone and their deceased great-grandparents will download, and who will end up paying a fraction of the cost simply because their music is more popular. It's not equitable to lesser-popular artists.
     
    guroseii and heutre like this.
    #3
  4. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 497
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 12:58 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    Just hire @Js_klaus instead... :cool: He's already the Backbone of the releases we talk about on this forum anyway lol <3

    ketsurui wrote:
    Yeah I get what you mean.. In that case I'm all for sending money via PayPal to my favorite artists if that means I can get their album for a better deal. (Is Bandcamp that disadvantageous? :oops:) But like even in that case I don't think they'd still lose as much profits as they do currently with physical only releases. :shock:

    Edit : Also I don't know about y'all but if I buy a physical release from an artist it's because I like him A LOT. I only end up liking two or three tracks on most albums anyway... At least on bandcamp you can filter out the songs you don't like lol. It's shady to the artist but it kinda sends a message lol

    Hot Take : I actually find the concept of Albums/EPs to be a bit antiquated, I much prefer how recent artists push out songs much quicker without worrying much on which release it should technically be under. I prefer independent bops over like.. the pressure of doing an artistically consistent release that ends up having a couple of fillers (subjective) just so the release can be categorized as an album. At least that's how I feel.. sometimes the concept of an album can become (to my ears) quite redundant after a couple of tracks. Bring demotapes back lol
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    Js_klaus likes this.
    #4
  5. Manneking -member- -member-

    Manneking
    Joined: 21 Dec 2008
    Posts: 965
    Location: UK
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 2:44 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    This sounds like a great idea actually, esp considering we have both listeners and folk who have participated in the music industry.

    heutre wrote:
    This. I collect vinyl but sadly, my player isn't great but I'm biding my time to get a better one (my pre-amp/stereo set up is actually decent) so it's nice having something where I can adjust the sound. I've been buying tapes too since they're cheaper to produce for DIY artists and often come w download codes anyway. I do like physical editions, esp since with vinyl I have frames to keep the covers in, and some are absolutely gorgeous (and you can replace the sleeves depending on whatever). Anyway, I digress. I do, like yourself wonder about the environmental impact that vinyl resurge is having, and even what it takes to have music remotely stored on servers that have their own carbon footprint.

    It seems like, at least in the west, streaming/digital releases are becoming more of a norm and then the "collector fans" purchase the physical/limited editions like coloured vinyl or casettes. But I imagine for artists like, say, Lana Del Rey who are household names/chart in many countries/major label/financial backing, producing stuff like this isn't a huge detail. It's probably much more of a risk for independent artists who have a following, or artists like kaya who have a primarily domestic following.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #5
  6. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 4:59 pm

    Forked off from elsewhere - here's a thread for discussing the music business, production, the charts, retail, or whatever else - particularly as it pertains to the Japanese music scene but anything's fair game.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #6
  7. heutre -member- -member-

    heutre
    Joined: 08 Feb 2012
    Posts: 497
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 8:30 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    and some healthy gossip...


    Manneking wrote:
    Aaah I started collecting vinyl too and tbh from a newcomer's perspective it seems like such a hassle, like the whole the importance of having a good player.. a good needle.. a good pre-amp, like.. it's such a headache compared to CD lol. Vinyl artwork is gorgeous I get what you mean. Also tape has a dear place in my heart as well, like the natural distortion it has with repeated use actually improves (imo) some of the songs they contain lol. Intro by KALMIA is more enjoyable from the old degraded rip tbh.

    I don't get the vinyl resurgence to be honest, it feels like a waste of resources if you just get those same albums you like to listen to directly lol, but like.. I'm in no position to judge other people's hobbies.. I just think it's kinda strange lol. (I only buy vinyl because I collect promo 12" that have instrumentals of songs I like for an absurdly low cost compared to their CD counterpart, if they even have a CD counterpart)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    #7
  8. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Tue May 5, 2020 9:08 pm

    heutre wrote:
    Yeah, I see no point in it personally. I've never bought a vinyl when any other format was available - I just keep a turntable around for the old strange things that are vinyl-only.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #8
  9. sanctum -member- -member-

    sanctum
    Joined: 10 Mar 2005
    Posts: 1466
    Posted: Wed May 6, 2020 7:28 pm

    All of my Japanese friends, co-workers and students regularly rent CDs. If the rental store doesn't have whatever they're hunting for they'll usually just pick it up from somewhere like Mercari, rip it and then resell it.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #9
  10. ketsurui -member- -member-

    ketsurui
    Joined: 17 Oct 2006
    Posts: 102
    Location: OR, USA
    Posted: Wed May 6, 2020 8:02 pm

    sanctum wrote:
    I think this is also the reason that Book-Off is always chock-full of good stuff. When I was in Tokyo, I think I went to about a dozen or so Book-Off stores, and came back with two suitcases worth of CDs and DVDs. Some of them were new releases and were dirt cheap. I'm guessing because of the exact reason you mentioned. A lot of people have no desire to hold onto physical media. It sucks for the future of physical media, but in the meantime it's great for us collectors.

    flowersofnight wrote:
    Vinyl is arguably the most value-retaining format. The vinyl market is still pretty strong, thanks to hipsters and retrowave/synthwave. I associate more with the latter, even though I live in Oregon. The cool thing about vinyl these days is most of them come with a digital download, so you're able to keep the vinyl clean, which in turn retains the value and makes it resell-able, but you can still listen to the release via digital.

    I don't have a huge collection of vinyl, but there are definitely some releases that just sound so much better than their CD counterparts. Those, and vinyl-only releases like you mentioned.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #10
  11. sanctum -member- -member-

    sanctum
    Joined: 10 Mar 2005
    Posts: 1466
    Posted: Wed May 6, 2020 8:44 pm

    ketsurui wrote:
    I forgot to mention that I live in the countryside and there aren't many stores like Book-off around. I imagine that it is a similar situation in other areas of Japan too.

    Now that I think about it, we did have a music store in the AEON mall but they closed down a few years ago. I don't think I ever saw anybody in. There is also another building, two stories, that has GAME CD BOOK written on the outside, but the second floor has been closed off (for quite some time) and they only sell magazines now. I think they act as a supplier of textbooks for the local schools so that is probably what is keeping them in business.

    ketsurui wrote:
    I used to have a pretty decent vinyl collection, all of which was unplayed, that I eventually sold for a decent amount of money. A lot of them were limited edition or unique colours so they held their value pretty well.
     
    ketsurui likes this.
    #11
  12. Cae -member- -member-

    Cae
    Joined: 19 Apr 2018
    Posts: 138
    Location: The Wired
    Posted: Thu May 7, 2020 11:36 am

    My local CD store (also countryside) was selling Lunasea and Laputa releases for 3/4000 yen second hand lol. Had to check if I stepped into a time machine.
     
    #12
  13. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Thu May 7, 2020 11:47 am

    sanctum wrote:
    I'm going to start up a record label that just sells blank records, and see how long it takes anyone to notice ::cred::
     
    lady_toast and Manneking like this.
    #13
  14. Revelation -member- -member-

    Revelation
    Joined: 02 Oct 2019
    Posts: 44
    Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell
    Posted: Thu May 7, 2020 12:37 pm

    Actually, one thing I've always appreciated about the Japanese music industry is that Japan still believes in material music, especially CDs. Back when MP3s began their takeover, I already moaned at the thought of losing something tangible, the entire package of music and art together as I still believe it ought to be. Initially, I was drawn to J-rock because of the visual aesthetic and a lot of the Japanese artists I love deliver beautiful music packaging, which to me, just makes being the owner of a piece of their work that much better. Of course, back in the day I was aghast at how expensive average J-rock albums were, though I reasoned it must be because of all the hands going into getting the finished product out. I get why digital downloads are far more convenient now, but I want the whole shebang, not just a file that can be lost far more easily.

    On the resurrection of vinyls- They are a joke, but let the hipsters stay hip however long vinyls will remain in demand.
     
    #14
  15. Manneking -member- -member-

    Manneking
    Joined: 21 Dec 2008
    Posts: 965
    Location: UK
    Posted: Thu May 7, 2020 3:16 pm

    heutre wrote:
    One credit I've gotta give analog is the idiosyncracy. I've got a Zola Jesus record (Tsar Bomba) that gets stuck in a groove of noise towards the final track which sounds great because it loops. On the other, hand I have a record that plays absolutely goddamn terribly and skips (even though it was brand new, though thankfully came with a DLC). With CDs you don't always get that same personality, it's essentially a carbon copy (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). Saying that, I remember using Limewire as a kid and having some compressed-to-hell-and-back music that I remember more fondly because of it's kinks, not in spite of them.

    One thing I've been wondering about the future of physical media is 3D Printing - IE, buying the schematics to "print" the media so that unnecessary material isn't wasted (this is decades off, at least) or going completely digital. Especially since newer generations are more in tune with the impact our existence has on the global environment, plus we're living in the Anthropocene era where human beings have had such a profound impact on the earth.
     
    heutre likes this.
    #15
  16. Hampo -member- -member-

    Hampo
    Joined: 11 Jan 2019
    Posts: 207
    Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:38 pm

    So many long comments, argh!

    I never really considered vinyl a "hipster" thing, but that's probably because I'm from Finland and there's always been people here who value vinyl, even during the CD takeover. So there never really was a "resurrection of vinyls" as far as I'm concerned. People have always bought them, as long as they've been available. Metal genre for example has always been pretty good to vinyl.
    The real reason why vinyl outlasts CD is this: it's a different sound format completely. Music on a CD is basically just digital file format on a CD. It's not that different from selling music on a memory stick or a floppy disk.

    Still, when it comes to physical media, I personally prefer CD simply because it takes less space and I honestly can't hear that much different in quality either. The real reason why "vinyl sounds better" is because people put much more money into their LP gear than their CD players. Also, vinyl vs CD people tend to compare albums that have gone through the horrible "loudness war" remastering. The real reason why so many CD releases are not as dynamic in their mixing as their vinyl counterparts is because CD just happened to come out at a shitty time in history when it comes to music mixing. It doesn't matter how good the range can be on a sound format if you compress it to hell and back.

    Thank God for discogs where you can actually see what print the album is before you buy it. Just recently had to hunt down a CD released in '93, because the later releases were "remastered"= compressed to tinman quality.

    However, even I can't defend CD jewel cases. Cardboard digipaks are so much better, cheaper to make and I assume more eco-friendly, so why do some bands still release their albums in jewel cases?
     
    flowersofnight likes this.
    #16
  17. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:02 pm

    Hampo wrote:
    "Outlasts" is a funny word for a format that you destroy a little bit every time you play it, just sayin' XD

    Hampo wrote:
    Is there any sort of database of "best prints" out there? Knowing the edition is one thing, but on the rare occasion where I do have a choice of editions, I still end up just looking through random forums to find out what people think is the best one in terms of mastering.
     
    #17
  18. Hampo -member- -member-

    Hampo
    Joined: 11 Jan 2019
    Posts: 207
    Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:09 pm

    flowersofnight wrote:
    You think CD isn't being destroyed every time you even look at the damn thing? When those things get scratched, it's game over, man.

    Also, I just recommend you check out if the discogs album release page has comments on it. If it's a well known band, you'll have people complain about different issues with the mastering. Sometimes even smaller bands might have fans who are surprisingly anal about these things. But other than that, yeah, check out the internet.
     
    #18
  19. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12620
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:17 pm

    Hampo wrote:
    Grab it by the edges, man, the edges ::meev::
    A CD at least has error correction, and if you use a good ripper like EAC it'll actually tell you if there were any uncorrectable errors or not. I think it's much easier to get a CD's "peak performance" than it is for a vinyl.
    I mean, my God, look at the ridiculous things I've been forced to buy XD
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071Z2GZ5N
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ERPWAK2
     
    #19
  20. Hampo -member- -member-

    Hampo
    Joined: 11 Jan 2019
    Posts: 207
    Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 2:44 pm


    All of your arguments are now invalid.
     
    sanctum likes this.
    #20