Would you switch to handkerchiefs and/or bidets?

[Berserk]

Don't vote before reading the thread!

First, without reading below, I want you to ask yourselves: would you ever be open to the idea of switching from Kleenex to handkerchiefs or from toilet paper to bidets? Don't worry about the logistics of the change--assume that hankies and bidets are widely available.

Continue reading the bullet points below, ask yourself again, then vote!

Fun Facts about toilet paper:
* The U.S.A goes through 36 billion rolls of toilet paper annually.
* Only 2% of toilet paper in the U.S. is made from recycled wood fiber.
* Though a sizable fraction of toilet paper is made from wood from tree farms, more than 50% of it is harvested from wild forest, and a small but unignorable percentage of that is harvested from ancient, virgin forest. We're turning beautiful, invaluable wildlife habitat into asswipes every year.
* Since we totally need pristine, white toilet paper (because nothing less would be fit to wipe our bungholes with, right?), the manufacturing process uses huge amounts of chlorine, which results in toxic byproducts that get dumped into the environment.
* Toilet paper continues to cause widespread septic tank problems for people who live in BFE, Nowhere.
* I don't have any exact statistics, but all paper production consumes a lot of water, and considering that toilet paper is the ultimate throw-away product, this is quite wasteful.
* Toilet paper must be packaged and then shipped by truck all around the country, and often you have to drive your car out to the supermarket to pick it up. It also costs money to buy.
* Wood fiber is relatively short, and therefore rough on the skin. Recycled wood fiber is even more-so.
* Dry wipes are not able to clean as well as a rinse of water.

Fun Facts for tissues:
* One Kleenex takes more than half a gallon of water to produce (it's approx. 2.2 liters).
* You can use a Kleenex once, twice, maybe three times on a good day, before you have to throw that wet, dripping mess in the trash. A handkerchief (provided it's a normal size, which is typically larger than a Kleenex) is not likely to ever get so saturated throughout the day that it becomes unusable, and it can last for at least 520 wash cycles in the laundry.
* It takes three times more energy to produce the tree fiber that makes a Kleenex than it does for the cotton that makes a handkerchief. Also, trees take longer to grow than cotton.
* The cotton fibers of a handkerchief are longer (and therefore softer and gentler on the skin) than even virgin wood pulp. There are no recycled Kleenex available because the wood fibers would be far too short for comfort.
* Kleenex often have to be imbued with lotion (making them more resource intensive and expensive) in order to not cause skin irritation from frequent use. Even then, they often make sore noses after frequent blowing.
* Because they're disposable, it's easy to run out of Kleenex. Being stuck with a runny nose but nothing to wipe with can really suck, especially if in public.

 

[flowersofnight]

I wouldn't switch to handkerchiefs, any more than I'd switch to toilet paper that you carried around all day after using. Barf me out!

Stand-alone bidets are kind of ridiculous but the Japanese-style ones built into the toilet are sensible enough. In the real world they cost somewhere between a million billion trillion dollars and infinity though.

So, I picked the second option.

 

[eMiNaTiC]

i voted the second option just because i never feel clean enough using toilet paper not because i care about the environment i feel the same way about handkerchiefs and if tissues suddenly became illegal i'd probably just use handkerchiefs and throw them away after one use

besides i only use tissues when i'm sick or crying, which is not very often.

 

[Iskanderia]

Don't you still need some toilet paper to dry off after using a bidet? Do you know if the bidet is better than those flushable wet wipes? This is all very gross, I know, but I'd think the wipes are better than squirting some water up yonder since it combines some scrubbing action with the moisture.

(Which, by the way, if you're just using dry toilet paper without a wet wipe follow-up, you're much dirtier than you realize. Oh God, why are we talking about this?)


Re: hankies: I'm not carrying snot around with me all day. I have bad allergies and sinus problems, so that would get pretty gross, pretty fast.

 

[Cerceaux]

if tissues suddenly became illegal

Oh god don't even joke about this, the SF mayor might see your post and get ideas.

EDIT: Also this reminds me of that ugly_crap post about people selling hand-crocheted tampons on Etsy. Nooooo thank you.

 

[Berserk]

I'm glad to hear some people are actually open to the idea of bidets! Most people I ask about it are really closed-minded and tell me they wouldn't even try it

Stand-alone bidets are kind of ridiculous but the Japanese-style ones built into the toilet are sensible enough. In the real world they cost somewhere between a million billion trillion dollars and infinity though.

I agree, I wouldn't want to use a bidet if it were separate from the toilet either. You don't need to buy a brand new toilet if you want a bidet, though! They have bidet attachments for around $40 that you can retrofit your toilet with. I'm considering buying one just to try it out

@eMi: That's fine, it doesn't have to be out of love for the environment XD. I'm the same way and I end up using a lot of toilet paper because of it. I can never get as clean feeling as I want to with just toilet paper.

Don't you still need some toilet paper to dry off after using a bidet?

A lot of bidet toilets have an air jet to dry you off, but if you just have one of those basic bidet attachments that I linked to above, then you would probably want some paper to dry off with.

I'd think the wipes are better than squirting some water up yonder since it combines some scrubbing action with the moisture.

Yeah, I think the ideal situation would be a combination of bidet and recycled toilet paper.

Even if we still used toilet paper, I think bidets would drastically cut down how much we use. A single square of two-ply recycled toilet paper (or two squares of one-ply) would probably be plenty to dry off with and be squeaky clean. Currently I use like 4-6 squares of double ply, usually, which is a lot

The soft, quilted toilet paper made from virgin wood pulp wouldn't do because the water would dissolve it and it would leave residue and fall apart

Of course, the ideal situation for the environment would be to just use the bidet and either an air stream or the sit-and-wait method to dry off XD. I don't think that would be unsanitary (it would certainly be more sanitary than our current method), but it probably wouldn't feel as satisfactorily clean as it would if you had a wipe to go with it.

In defense of hankies:
I started using handkerchiefs this past month. My grandpa and grandma have always used them, and I've seen my professors using them, so I figured what the hell? They can't be that gross. What I've found is that the cotton fabric is way thicker and less absorbent than tissue paper and the square is much larger. This, coupled with the fact that you fold a handkerchief like six times to create a bunch of folds and pockets, keeps the snot very well-contained. It's not at all like carrying around used tissues, and I have never felt gross or unsanitary using handkerchiefs. Just never blow your nose on the outside of the handkerchief and you'll never have to worry about snot lining your pocket.

Of course, you need to switch to a fresh one every day. I have 9 of them so I won't run out during the week, even if I put off doing laundry for a day or two.

Plus, you can get creative with them. They can be monogrammed, you can color coordinate or get patterned ones to double as pocket squares, or if you're a fanboy/girl you can get graphic ones with band logos or Hello Kitty on them or something XD

 

[PureElegance]

I wouldn't switch to handkerchiefs, any more than I'd switch to toilet paper that you carried around all day after using. Barf me out!

I know! I mean, what if I bawl over the status of women or Chinese heroics like I usually do and I use my handkerchief and it's all full of mucus and tears and mascara? Really now.

...So, if it's less absorbent, the snot will just sit there? why would I ever want that in my pocket. I don't care if I can fold the handkerchief, my snot is on that thing and I still don't get why I would want to carry that around for a day until I can switch to a fresh one. I wouldn't even want to put that thing with my clothes in the laundry...
Why would you carry around used tissues anyways? That's not even an option unless you can't find the trash
... and why would you soil Hello Kitty's good face?

Handkerchiefs should only be used to bid farewell to the men going off to war.

I don't mind bidets since we used to have one a while ago, but I still would use toilet paper. I'd rather have a bidet/toilet combo though.

 

[eMiNaTiC]

looking at that bidet....isnt it bad to have the stream going back to front for cross contamination reasons?
i've never really had the problem of using mass amounts of toilet paper because i normally shower right after... guess i don't really need a bidet since i normally use the showerhead o_O

this conversation is getting intense

 

[Cerceaux]

Plus, you can get creative with them. They can be monogrammed, you can color coordinate or get patterned ones to double as pocket squares, or if you're a fanboy/girl you can get graphic ones with band logos or Hello Kitty on them or something XD

That's even worse! Why would I want to get snot and boogers all over something cute?
I had a pack of tissues with little duckies printed all over them and I could bring myself to use them for like 5 years.

EDIT: Ooops, I just saw that someone beat me to this. xD Your posts are too long!

 

[Iskanderia]

I would maybe consider the bidet if for no other reason than to save money on toilet paper. I use ridiculous amounts being a woman with a tiny bladder who drinks water non-stop all day long. It's hard to tell, since we have different bathrooms, but I wouldn't be surprised if we went through a roll a day between the two of us. On the other hand, it might be a bit time-consuming to go through that every time I pee (5-10 times a day). It's probably good for the other purpose though.

Ultimately, I voted for neither because, let's face it, no matter how logical, I'm not going to switch to either of these.

 

[eMiNaTiC]

dude. my sister uses 2 rolls per day. not exaggerating. and thats when she's not on her period

 

[Berserk]

@eMi: I don't know. As a guy, that never crossed my mind. I thought Japanese bidets had them coming from the back like that too, yet that doesn't seem to be an issue for them? So maybe it works out somehow *shrug*

...So, if it's less absorbent, the snot will just sit there? why would I ever want that in my pocket.

It's folded inside, and it does absorb but it just doesn't get saturated if you know what I mean. It dries up in a matter of minutes, so it's not moist or drippy or anything. You would really have to use one to see what I mean and how it's not gross... But it sounds like you never will XD

Why would you carry around used tissues anyways? That's not even an option unless you can't find the trash

In my experience there are lots of times trash cans aren't available

Don't you ever have to walk places? I guess you've never had to work outside in the Winter, being a Floridian and all, but there's not always a fresh tissue or a trash can handy.

... and why would you soil Hello Kitty's good face?

That's even worse! Why would I want to get snot and boogers all over something cute?

Oh my god you guys... Look at this one. You would never have to blow your nose on the face

You would just fold it so the face is on the outside rather than the part where you blow.

 

[MissUMana]

This has to be the most entertaining conversation since I joined scape, ahahahah! I can't believe this is what happened to a pioneers' nation!

 

[flowersofnight]

I can't believe this is what happened to a pioneers' nation!

You volunteering to go back to corncobs and old copies of the Sears-Roebuck catalog?

 

[MissUMana]

No, because we're not a pioneers' nation, ahahahah! Now I fully understand what Frédéric Beigbeder meant by "too hygienic", and it's a lot of fun for free.

 

[faith]

I voted the second option as long as it really works...

Grossness to come.

To be honest, what comes out of my nose is usually not going to absorb into something. It's going to glue it together. If it is going to absorb, then it's because it's basically the same consistency and amount as what I've just drank, which equals about a glass of water.
Plus I tried a hanky once and I'm not so good with remembering to wash stuff.

Not sure I understand about the "pioneer nation"....are we known as clean freaks? If so, what is Japan because man do they take it to a germaphobic extreme sometimes. At any rate, most people don't use é rolls of TP a day in the US. And I'm assuming Europeans wipe after using the rest room too....
Though it would explain the stinky men and Parisian dog poo if they didn't.

 

[MissUMana]

Oh yes, we do use toilet paper and wipes like everybody else, but we don't seem to be freaked out by whatever it is that our bodies need to eliminate. I guess we're more at peace with our bodily functions.

 

[faith]

Wait, now I'm interested. Would you mind sharing a little bit about what Frédéric Beigbeder said, and how the French view American hygene?

This is something I've never heard about before (my colleagues are giong to like this question).

EDT: Okay. They all thought it was the same in the US and France. And that New York is dirtier. And we compared and neither of us had dirt under our fingernails.

 

[MissUMana]

Ok faith, I'll tell you after dinner, promised!

 

[PureElegance]

Don't you ever have to walk places? I guess you've never had to work outside in the Winter, being a Floridian and all, but there's not always a fresh tissue or a trash can handy.

Haven't you heard of palanquins? Gosh.

I haven't lived in Florida for almost two years now so I walk to places in the snow when it snows and I've never had a trash can crisis. I can't speak for the other boroughs but in Manhattan there are trash cans at like every corner, they're all over the parks, etc.

Oh my god you guys... Look at this one. You would never have to blow your nose on the face

You would just fold it so the face is on the outside rather than the part where you blow.

Good attempt to convert me to the dark side but... I can't, I can't! XD Just the thought that I'm going to continually stick my face into a place I continually blow my nose/cough in is freaky.

I barely use tissues anyways so why am I even thinking about this