sailorka wrote:
Why can't men wear pink or drink appletinis or gesture with their hands or cry? Because those things are too 'feminine' and feminine=undesirable, emasculating, bad.
Yeah. I'm not sure why things like those are gender-specific. I basically agree with everything you said, so I don't want to make this long post even longer!
Berserk wrote:
Just 'cause it makes room for a penis doesn't mean you have to have a penis to wear it!
I was going to edit this because I knew you were going to say that but I had to run out. Since I don't identify as male or as having a penis I don't think it would be useful for me personally. If another woman wants to buy it though then she can go ahead.
Why is it so weird for a woman to wear a jockstrap?
When did I say it was weird? If I identified as a man (or anything else) or if I liked them then I would go buy one, but since I don't then it wouldn't apply to me. If a woman wants to buy one then she can for her own reasons, I don't think it's odd. I'm not saying it's weird, but not cost efficient for me since it would take up space in my leggings and pants in general, but it depends on the type you'd get too, some are tighter than others so I'm not sure. I've never worn one before because they're ugly, but I don't think the penis area, since it's baggy in a place I have nothing in, would cling as much to my skin as the normal underwear would. Why are you assuming I think it's strange? That's what I don't understand about you XD It's like you're trying to be smart but it's not coming out right since you're just assuming things about what I think.
I'm not sure why anyone in general would wear a jockstrap though, those things are ugly XD Do people really like having their entire butts exposed like that? I don't think it makes one look attractive or sexy. I suppose it adds for easy access, but I'd rather wear a thong because at least it adds some shape instead of full on exposure.
But it's obviously weird in a statistical sense! And there's nothing wrong with that. That's all I've ever been trying to say here.
All I've been trying to say this entire time is that I don't get why it would be weird for a man to buy a purse
We're talking about two different things again. The jocks who give the quiet, nice guys grief are not and never were the nice guys' friends. They're just bullying guys they know are weaker than them to get more jock cred or make themselves feel better about having parents that don't love them.
But don't you think that the culture is part of it? Why do many guys act like that? I doubt every single one in the US has unloving parents. I think it's partly because there's the pressure to be "manly" and some go do the whole jock thing since it's pretty much the ultimate "manly" thing to be. We're talking about different things, but isn't the reason why they're *not* friends because the nice quiet guys aren't seen as being tough, strong, athletic, built, etc enough--- which are traditional signs of manhood?
Besides, it depends on what they believe is "weak" too. The nice quiet guy can have the inner strength of a mountain, but he's not perceived as such since:
1. He's really a nice person in general
2. He probably isn't as into sports (OH GOD)
3. He's not loud or rough or "one of the guys" in that way
4. He might have friends who are girls
Why are the stereotypical male nerds/not traditionally manly guys picked on so much? You really think it doesn't have anything to do with what we normally would encourage in men in our society? I'm not talking about how friends interact with each other, or those who have brotherly or rival relationships, but why some guys who do things like be polite to everyone are picked out and bullied, which has to do with the expectations of what men should be like. By treating these boys and guys this way because of rigid views on what men should be like is treating them as inferior. I'm not saying that playing rough is by itself a bad thing, but I don't think we should cling on to it, praise it and expect boys to be that way since it's only hurting the ones that aren't that way.
If a guy is into poetry, reading, or whatnot, things that aren't considered "manly" or "strong" like playing football or whatever, he definitely has a higher chance of being looked down upon for being that way by his male peers. I keep seeing this since I was little starting with a boy named German (pronounced Herr-mahn; a Spanish name) in elementary school.
One boy I want to point out because I was in love with him was Philipp. I remember when he first came, other boys would pick on him because they thought he was LIKE A GURL. He had girl friends, he wasn't into sports, he was tall and lean, a proper guy, and didn't like to get dirty as much. I also don't think it helped that he had a kind of "delicate" appearance partly due to his being German. He only attained his "guy" status when he got a girlfriend because the guys thought he was gay before that and would call him a fag, gay, or tease him, for the reasons I stated above. This has repeated itself with different guys all throughout those years continuing now at my supposedly enlightened university.
And it's not always physical, either. I and my fellow nerds would get in the biggest verbal sparring matches you ever did see, and people would often look at us and ask, "why are you even friends?!" To us it was obvious--the only reason we were arguing in the first place was because we cared what the other person thought.
How is that only a guy/nerd thing? I argue with my *~GURL FRIENDZ~* a lot and debate with them, IRL and off. Not only my girl friends, but also guy friends since I have a good mix of both. People mistake us as hating each other as well.
Isn't that something you do with people whose opinions you care about? I like it when my friends disagree with me because it shows they care enough to voice their opinion. It's a huge sign that I care. I like it when people care enough to challenge me.
But I'm always bothered by the way feminists are so confident in how men "must" act a certain way when most of them clearly don't understand the first thing about why men act the way the do.
I'm not saying women shouldn't voice their opinions about men, but maybe rather than making declarations about what men should or shouldn't be feminists should start asking "why" men are the way they are.
The things I'm concerned about aren't things like "OMG did he open the door for me because he thinks I'm weak?!" but more about issues like rape, sex discrimination, prostitution, the Middle East, and power dynamics between men and women. I focus on a lot of depressing things because that's what keeps me going. The whole opening the door thing might have been an issue 60 years ago, but it's not high on my priority list because I don't think it's something harmful nowadays. All I would ask for is for men to treat women well and not as their inferiors.
I don't think you should generalize feminists either because I only am talking about a few women and it's definitely not the majority. This entire time I only quoted one lady and said that "some" women feel like it's a bad thing, I wouldn't group everyone together because that's insulting and too much of a simplification for such a diverse group of people. That's my main problem with what you're saying because it seems like you're only getting defensive as if feminists were your enemy. I haven't clumped all men together as bullies, as pigs, etc because I love men and I have wonderful men in my life but you seem to keep clumping feminists together as if we're all of one mind.
Yes, the door-holding specifically. Of course men were extremely sexist towards women in the past in many ways, but do we really know that door-holding was ever a part of that?
Haven't you ever heard of chivalry when it comes to women's treatment? It's basically sexist in that it's treating women as different than men, as if they need to be taken care of, men being the heroes, putting women on a pedestal instead of treating everyone with common courtesy. I don't think chivalry is the end of the world and I don't mind it, but doing things like holding doors open for women only is sexist in that you're treating one sex differently than another. In this day and age I don't believe it's something harmful and I think it's nice thing to do for people in general. Anyway, whenever a guy (not a stranger) does something like that for me I believe it's because he cares and wants to be nice.
Many men in the US, China, Peru, the world, are still sexist now, just in different ways XD Unless I see the amount of rapes towards women as equal to men, getting beatings as equal, sex discrimination claims as equal, women not being 70% of the world's poor, women not forcibly going through FGM, the statistic that "gender based violence kills 1 in 3 women worldwide" is changed, female fetuses are not aborted because they're female, women getting into better jobs, etc. etc. etc. I'm not going to believe everything is amazing and equal for women. I'll probably die before any of this is changed as much, but it's a dream.