What languages do you know?

[sanctum]

English is my native language and I would rate my Japanese as being around an intermediate level. For a few months now I've been entertaining the idea of picking up a third language, which made me wonder what other languages people around here are speaking.

 

[flowersofnight]

I make no secret of decently reading and understanding (but not speaking) French, and knowing my way around a dictionary in Japanese. I took and passed the JLPT N4 on a lark once, but I'm probably a little better than that. A little XD
So what third language are you considering?

 

[sanctum]

My mother knows quite a bit of French and spoke it to me a lot when I was a child but unfortunately I never took an interest in it.

So what third language are you considering?

Not quite sure. I was playing around with Russian about 10 years ago, so I at least have some memory of how to read Cyrillic floating around in my mind somewhere. I really wanted to learn Mongolian awhile ago but there are almost zero resources available. Other potential candidates are Swedish, Italian, Polish or another Slavic language. I also briefly entertained the idea of Arabic for a moment, or at least just learning the writing system.

 

[flowersofnight]

That's a pretty wide selection of choices XD Are you more interested in reading or speaking to people or what?

 

[sanctum]

Are you more interested in reading or speaking to people or what?

You see that's the problem, I don't really have any purpose for wanting to learn any of the languages other than satisfying an autodidactic itch.

 

[faith]

Tbh, I've seen that most of the time starting on a 3rd language without mastery of the second one will probably set you back in both.
So I'd say continue with Japanese until you reach easy L1 level, and you want to do more, then learn the meanings of the hanzi not used by Japanese.
That way you're set to take up Mandarin at some point later.

French, while quite froufrou, isn't particularly useful unless you are considering working in the UN or developing business in parts of Africa,
or reading certain literary classics in their original language....or Haruki Murakami.
The French translations done by this Helen Morita lady are amazing.
Even knowing French won't particularly help with Mylene Farmer lyrics btw.

 

[sanctum]

Tbh, I've seen that most of the time starting on a 3rd language without mastery of the second one will probably set you back in both.

I'm not really looking to master anything, I'd just like something linguistic to study for those times when my brain is cooked from English and Japanese.

 

[faith]

I meant it might have negative impacts on your Japanese.
But if you want something interesting then why not a dialect, or an indigenous language.
Basque or Navajo or something like that...

 

[flowersofnight]

That way you're set to take up Mandarin at some point later.

I still maintain, and will always maintain, that this will never be practical and you should only study it if you have a deep and abiding cultural interest in contemporary mainland China.

or an indigenous language

It seems like a lot of those languages are barely taught outside of the communities that speak them. I was once reading a blog by some Canadian oddball who refused to live anymore in Canada unless he learned an indigenous language to absolve himself of being a usurper, more or less. He decided on the most commonly-spoken of those languages up there, Cree, and signed up for some college courses on it. What he got was barely more than some word lists to memorize and repeat back for an easy A. The whole thing was a joke.
He never learned Cree to any acceptable standard and as far as I know he did leave Canada. The End

 

[Madmoiselle_Silk]

Native language is Swedish, second language is English. My third language was French because my father was native in it. However I rarely remember anything now. My fourth language is Japanese, I think I'm on intermediate level, I passed JLPT 2 last year.

Tbh, I've seen that most of the time starting on a 3rd language without mastery of the second one will probably set you back in both.
So I'd say continue with Japanese until you reach easy L1 level, and you want to do more, then learn the meanings of the hanzi not used by Japanese.
That way you're set to take up Mandarin at some point later.

Second this. As I wrote above, my third language was French, but the minute I started studying Japanese my French kind of disappeared... I've been thinking about learning Arabic but haven't because I'm scared it will effect my japanese.

Swedish might acctually be a good choice, it's pretty similar to english (grammatically and sometimes even vocabulary).

This is not meant to sound like a bitch, but I can't help but to roll my eyes at all the comments I've seen from native english speakers saying how difficult it is to master a second language. The rest of the world is basically forced to do so. For example, most countries see it as a must if you want to get a higher education. Just a small language rant. sorry.

 

[faith]

To be fair, just because non-native English speakers have to learn a second language doesn't mean it isn't hard to do so lol
I think Dutch is probably closest to English tbh. Sometimes when you listen to it, it sounds like they're just drunk Englishmen.

 

[flowersofnight]

native english speakers saying how difficult it is to master a second language. The rest of the world is basically forced to do so.

I think you've just answered your own question though XD It's precisely because we're not forced to that it's hard.
Like, I'm never, ever going to learn to hold a conversation in French because nobody here speaks it even if I wanted to speak it to them. And I'm not signing up for a... what's the equivalent of 英会話? フラン会話?

 

[cardy]

English is my native language.
I actually picked up a little Japanese in the 90s from reading manga, back before it was in English, and then trying to translate things on my own and eventually I tried translating song lyrics for my own enjoyment.
I can't hold even a basic conversation in Japanese because I never practiced that aspect. I can read blogs and the basics fairly well.

German is my second language since I moved to Germany many years ago.

I want to get back into learning Japanese but don't have the time / energy to do so on top of German.

I did read once that learning two languages at the same time can actually work if the two languages are more apart from each other. So learning Spanish and French at the same time might be more difficult than Spanish and Japanese. Not sure how true this is since I've never actually attempted it.

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And as an English native speaker, born in America (New York), I have a little defense / explanation for the supposed lack of second language knowledge of English speakers in the US.
Not having neighboring countries really cuts down on the need to learn or even be passively influenced to differing cultures. Yes there is Mexico and Canada...but depending on where you are in America, you are 2-4 hours by plane to either of those countries or 10-30 hours by car to either one of those countries. Where I am in Germany, I could be in 5 different countries within 5-10 hours of driving and in 1-2 hours by plane to nearly any country in Europe.

While I took Spanish classes for a few years, it was pretty much a joke and I retain very little of it to this day. Considering Spanish is like the second official language of America, especially in New York where I'm from, I still never used it outside of the classroom setting. Everyone I know had to take a second language in school but nearly no one I know actually learned it to be conversational at all. No one I know can say "I learned my second language in school". The only way was if they grew up in a two language household.

Now that I live in Germany and have met lots of people who grew up here, it's amazing to hear people talk about how they spent a semester abroad or a year or two in a completely different country when they were 15-19. Also kids start at 6 or 7 in Germany learning English. I only had to learn a second language from 12-16 or so. That goes a long way into immersing oneself into another language. By contrast, in my high school (15-1 with 3000 kids I don't recall a single person who spent a semester abroad in a foreign country. At best, they spent a few weeks in a school program in Italy or something.

Anywho, rant over

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Good luck on your next language, sanctum!

One thing I do recommend is finding a language partner to practice that new language.
I used conversationexchange.com to find a German speaker as just learning from a book and listening doesn't cut it for me.

 

[flowersofnight]

Considering Spanish is like the second official language of America, especially in New York where I'm from, I still never used it outside of the classroom setting.

Yeah, the joke is always that "You can't even order at McDonald's in (New York/Los Angeles/wherever) unless you speak Spanish", but really unless you speak Spanish you'd probably never go to the neighborhoods where that's the case.

 

[sanctum]

Swedish might acctually be a good choice, it's pretty similar to english (grammatically and sometimes even vocabulary).

I've also heard that Swedish is mutually intelligible with Norwegian, which is a bonus.

I think Dutch is probably closest to English tbh. Sometimes when you listen to it, it sounds like they're just drunk Englishmen.

I can't take Dutch seriously as a language after discovering neuken in de keuken.

I can't help but to roll my eyes at all the comments I've seen from native english speakers saying how difficult it is to master a second language.

To be fair, just because non-native English speakers have to learn a second language doesn't mean it isn't hard to do so lol

Regardless or what your native language is, learning, or mastering any second language is difficult. I'm more baffled by the native English speakers who treat it as a mark of pride that they don't know a second language. Or the woke types who think learning a second language is racist.

I have a little defense / explanation for the supposed lack of second language knowledge of English speakers in the US.

It's like the old saying goes, "What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? An American.

Of course the same could be said for Australia. As far as I am aware most schools run Japanese up until high school, whereafter you can choose between French and Japanese, or drop learning a second language entirely. Chinese was also floated as a potential second language for students but that is an enormous political can of worms. I think any attempt at integrating Chinese language studies into Australian schools would be an absolute disaster.

That goes a long way into immersing oneself into another language.

I had a ハーフ student who was born and raised in Italy, knowing only Italian, until he was about 10, at which point his family returned to Japan and he had to begin learning Japanese (and of course English). I taught him when he was 17/18 and he was perfectly fluent in Japanese by that point, though he did say that junior high school was quite difficult and that he has completely forgotten Italian.

Yeah, the joke is always that "You can't even order at McDonald's in (New York/Los Angeles/wherever) unless you speak Spanish"

The first time I mustered up the courage and tried placing an order at a restaurant in Japanese the waitress replied to me in English. I was terribly disappointed.

 

[cardy]

Yeah, the joke is always that "You can't even order at McDonald's in (New York/Los Angeles/wherever) unless you speak Spanish", but really unless you speak Spanish you'd probably never go to the neighborhoods where that's the case.

Definitely. There are certain areas in Queens, NY which are predominately one group of people who speak their native languages mostly.
At best, most people are just visiting those areas if you want to go to a restaurant that offers the best food from that ethnicity.

It's like the old saying goes, "What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? An American.

I had a ハーフ student who was born and raised in Italy, knowing only Italian, until he was about 10, at which point his family returned to Japan and he had to begin learning Japanese (and of course English). I taught him when he was 17/18 and he was perfectly fluent in Japanese by that point, though he did say that junior high school was quite difficult and that he has completely forgotten Italian.

The first time I mustered up the courage and tried placing an order at a restaurant in Japanese the waitress replied to me in English. I was terribly disappointed.

I was a typical American up until recent years!

I know some people here who moved back to Germany in their teenage years after being elsewhere (Italy, coincidentally) and they became super fluent in German almost immediately.

Myself on the other hand started learning German after I was 30 and it's been at times painful and a struggle.
But a (once) great man once said...No Pains, No Gains.

 

[sanctum]

Myself on the other hand started learning German after I was 30 and it's been at times painful and a struggle.

One could say that everything after 30 is painful and a struggle.

(once)

 

[faith]

Yeah, really, everything starts going downhill after 30 lol
I honestly thought I'd be dead by now, but I missed that window so here I am, alive, stuck playing Akuma no Densetsu with Hanachan for all eternity.
Ze TSU boU

Anyhow, most native English speakers don't need to learn another language, so they don't. It's simple and I don't fault them for it.
Especially since, from what I've seen, it's not only an anglophone thing.
I didn't find a lot of bilingualism in Spain either (outside of Barcelona, Mallorca, etc)
The majority of the time, even in Madrid, it was castilliano or nothing, baby.
And the French, despite learning English from a young age, are pretty bad at it in general.
Then, there's the Chinese....man do I have stories to tell about Chinese tourists.

 

[Madmoiselle_Silk]

I think you've just answered your own question though XD It's precisely because we're not forced to that it's hard.
Like, I'm never, ever going to learn to hold a conversation in French because nobody here speaks it even if I wanted to speak it to them. And I'm not signing up for a... what's the equivalent of 英会話? フラン会話?

I don't think I ever spoke english until I came to Japan We never had discussions etc in english class, only grammar and reading. Of course I was basically brought up by American tv shows like Days of Our Lives, Baywatch, Beverly Hills, Charmed etc so I guess watching all that might have helped my English convo skills subconsciously, and then again Swedish and English are similar.

But what has annoyed me and what made me write the above comment is that I've seen a lot of memes and twitter posts that had been shared and like so many times, by native english speakers, like "only bilinguals understand this" and then it's only quirky shit or fun stuff because most native english speakers chose to learn a second language. For me, one frustrating thing has been university. Most literature is not translated so we have to deal with academic english texts even if taking a beginners class in something not related to english. So it becomes basically a class in both english and whatever the subject is. and I can say it's not always fun. it can be frustrating. And I've also experienced taking classes with native english speakers and then we've had discussions in english to help them because their "Swedish is very basic" and at that time I couldn't help but to think that it is kind of weird that we are supposed to have the same level of english as a native speaker to be able to hold academic conversations, while the native speaker just can focus on the subject. It does feel like native speakers are handed a free card in the academic world. My last thesis was published and I wrote that in english and I felt proud that I had been able to do that because english isn't my native language. But I realized it isn't supposed to be a pride because it's taken for granted. And that makes me a bit sad. Because it has taken time, sweat and sometimes even tears.

 

[flowersofnight]

Most literature is not translated so we have to deal with academic english texts even if taking a beginners class in something not related to english. So it becomes basically a class in both english and whatever the subject is. and I can say it's not always fun. it can be frustrating. And I've also experienced taking classes with native english speakers and then we've had discussions in english to help them because their "Swedish is very basic" and at that time I couldn't help but to think that it is kind of weird that we are supposed to have the same level of english as a native speaker to be able to hold academic conversations

See, your mistake was going into a field where they expect you to hold conversations XD
On the other hand if you go into something like mathematics, they expect you to learn two additional languages... but only enough of each to read a mathematical paper.
And yet the mathematicians I knew still complained bitterly about that, so maybe there is some truth to the laziness of English-speakers XD