Madou Gathering 8 ~the day that no one cares~

[Geisha]

The problem here is that Kozi's music never suffered from being stagnant. While this is the problem with Mana's project.

That's just your personal opinion though, not a cardinal truth. To me and others Mana's work isn't stagnant. Conversely, Kozi's solo stuff has been mostly disappointing to me, especially (but not only) his newer style. Different people have different opinions and, depending on where you look or who you speak to, you can get all kinds of views.

Kozi changed his music and many people didn't like it, and they just stopped supporting him, many fans did this. While Mana keeps the similar pattern we are all tired to discuss about, and now he is also losing many fans. But their situations are totally different, and the lack of interest from many fans came from totally different REASONS.

As I said twice now, Mana also got criticised when he did different stuff, like BtG (you may want to re-read the thread here on Scape as an example), so his situation isn't different. Both of them (like all artists) do things some of their fans don't like while others like it.

I also don't think the sales should be a guide for him or us to analyse this situation, we can't measure why the sales dropped. Was it because most people who were already fans didn't like the album enough to buy it? Was it because these people don't feel like buying any physical units anymore, just digital stuff? Maybe the bad economy?

Looking at the actual Oricon positions, some of the newer releases charted (relatively) better than older releases, even though total sales were lower, so I don't think it is a matter of people not liking the newer stuff. It could be that overall CD sales in Japan have dropped, due to the economy, downloading or whatever, so with fewer sales you can now reach a higher chart position. Or Oricon's sales measure is dynamic, i.e. older CDs can have higher sales because they have been on sale for longer.

 

[monologue-de-chi]

I didn't read everything in here, but to answer some things...

about publicity

Most of Japanese people have no clue about Visual Kei and especially not about Moi dix Mois. But when you mention Malice Mizer, many people know it.
Though I guess, Dis Infernal was the best selling album, because he had Malice Mizer "in his back" like tailwind. There were more flyers and many magazines wrote about him. He did many photoshoots for FoolsMate, Shoxx and so on.

He doesn't do this anymore. Sometimes a live report is published, but there are no photoshoots. He just shoots for GLB and Cd covers/booklets.

He mentioned in an interview that he doesn't want Moi dix Mois to be that public. He just wants to have "real" fans who like this music and not just "any random people" who think it is a new trend. (If I remember correctly, I think I read this in 2006 or something).

On the one hand he needs money and on the other hand he wants to follow his ideals.

You don' t find much commercials about Moi dix Mois in Japan these times... When D+Sect came out, just the store of the handshake event had posters of MdM and flyers were just lying in the Moi meme Moitie store....

I think Mana does what he wants. If he would follow the voices of money and fame, he would sound like Justin Bieber (or Gackt )

 

[MissUMana]

He mentioned in an interview that he doesn't want Moi dix Mois to be that public. He just wants to have "real" fans who like this music and not just "any random people" who think it is a new trend. (If I remember correctly, I think I read this in 2006 or something).

All of this "any random people" phase he experienced with Malice Mizer, and he grew tired of it, just like anybody would. But then Malice was only half serious, because they were only half serious. With Kami's death, they were bound to mature and look for different things in life and in their careers.

 

[Martine]

I never had the impression that Mana is more serious now than he was during Malice Mizer or if you prefer that Malice Mizer was half serious. When I look at Moi dix Mois, I see joyfull mates who are just happy to play together like members of Malice Mizer were. Maybe, it's just the style of the music, darker, that gives the impression they are more serious. But in fact, I don't think they are. Maybe I am wrong but I hope not ^^ Art is not a business. Sure, the creation of Midi:Nette brought them a little seriousness in their work or maybe, it seems it brought. They have now a label. But I don't think it's the same for the band.

It's normal they looked for different things after Malice Mizer. We don't do the same things with other people. It can't be. But I am not so sure it's linked with Kami's death. It's just normal for artists to try different styles, especially after a group disband.

 

[surfingspider]

Not to defend Bieber, but he probably thinks he likes what he does and that its real. Successfullness is all because of selling out. A lot of effort usually goes into it. Conversely not being successful does not automagically apply pure and artistic status. Someone can simply suck. It takes real effort to suck and be successful - a level of effort that is worthy in its own right - to be able convince so many people that one doesnt suck, or the suckiness doesn't matter.

 

[Berserk]

^^I disagree. I think it's very easy to suck and be successful. Just look at pop stars like Britney Spears who can't sing live, can't write their own music, and who can barely dance yet rake in millions of dollars.

Maybe they look good and they can get decent people to write their songs for them, but they're still devoid of talent and very successful.

 

[Martine]

Well, probably they were lucky enough to meet the right person at the right moment and gained advantage from him/her ...

 

[MissUMana]

^^I disagree. I think it's very easy to suck and be successful. Just look at pop stars like Britney Spears who can't sing live, can't write their own music, and who can barely dance yet rake in millions of dollars.

Maybe they look good and they can get decent people to write their songs for them, but they're still devoid of talent and very successful.

I second this 100%.

 

[Camuflagem]

The problem here is that Kozi's music never suffered from being stagnant. While this is the problem with Mana's project.

That's just your personal opinion though, not a cardinal truth. To me and others Mana's work isn't stagnant. Conversely, Kozi's solo stuff has been mostly disappointing to me, especially (but not only) his newer style. Different people have different opinions and, depending on where you look or who you speak to, you can get all kinds of views.

Kozi changed his music and many people didn't like it, and they just stopped supporting him, many fans did this. While Mana keeps the similar pattern we are all tired to discuss about, and now he is also losing many fans. But their situations are totally different, and the lack of interest from many fans came from totally different REASONS.

As I said twice now, Mana also got criticised when he did different stuff, like BtG (you may want to re-read the thread here on Scape as an example), so his situation isn't different. Both of them (like all artists) do things some of their fans don't like while others like it.

Fine, I respect your opinion, i won't argue about it, just want to add that it wasn't a great anology to compare m10m sound's shift paradigms with Kozi's, because they are not equivalent. And yeah, people may dislike Kozi's sound, but most of them (or maybe all) will agree that his albums sound quite distinct one from another.

^^I disagree. I think it's very easy to suck and be successful. Just look at pop stars like Britney Spears who can't sing live, can't write their own music, and who can barely dance yet rake in millions of dollars.

Maybe they look good and they can get decent people to write their songs for them, but they're still devoid of talent and very successful.

Britney is like this because she has very very loyal fans. I think she is just way too charismatic, because It's not like if you put any random girl in her place, she'd have the same success. I don't think so. And she used to dance well, it's just nowadays that she sucks at it. Well, this is the info her fans told me, I am not into Britney.

 

[surfingspider]

^^I disagree. I think it's very easy to suck and be successful. Just look at pop stars like Britney Spears who can't sing live, can't write their own music, and who can barely dance yet rake in millions of dollars.

Maybe they look good and they can get decent people to write their songs for them, but they're still devoid of talent and very successful.

It's amazing that she's fooled the world for so long. All those people who bought into whatever they saw in her must be tools. It really is opinion, and some tinkerbell sprinkles.

A witnessed event I had in either Samarkand or Bokhara in Uzbekistan years ago was a concert that was quite funny to watch - not just for the heavy handed police presence for a tween crowd. The guy was obviously quite popular as girls were running up if they managed to evade the militiamen to hand over flowers, all the while his singing had not altered and then the microphone cord extension pulled out and he was still singing perfectly! The fans didn't seem to notice or care (I had a laugh with one of the dads sitting next to me. He probably still liked may day parades), as they still tested the militia ranks. At the end he fled into a car fearing an adoring stampead.

On a similar note my wife likes dima bilan and I think he's a no talent tissue. There are lots of other people out who like him too.

 

[Edgey]

Sounds like M10M is going through the phase that Dir en grey went through. Experimenting is always a good thing, and doing maybe a slight shift into something can be scary at time for some fans but in the end I'm sure they'll follow through. That said I think a lot of people were almost expecting something a long the lines of Malice Mizer when M10M first came out.

I admit I haven't listened to Moi dix mois since Beyond the Gate because I'm still sour about the first press edition. I hold a grudge like no other I swear. lol

 

[flowersofnight]

I admit I haven't listened to Moi dix mois since Beyond the Gate because I'm still sour about the first press edition. I hold a grudge like no other I swear. lol

You should give them another try, D+SECT got everything right that BTG got wrong if you ask me.

 

[Claire]

^ Totally

 

[Edgey]

I admit I haven't listened to Moi dix mois since Beyond the Gate because I'm still sour about the first press edition. I hold a grudge like no other I swear. lol

You should give them another try, D+SECT got everything right that BTG got wrong if you ask me.

I'm just on the second track and I already like what I hear.
Okay, I think I can finally ease up on my boycott.