Reading Thread 2: Pagemasters

flowersofnight

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Cerceaux wrote:
Uh, to be honest I don't think it's that great so far, but I've never made it farther than 50 pages or so.
I just looked it up, and it was a novel? XD I thought it was a manga. Anyway it sounds like I ought to just pass on this one.
EDIT: did you see the reviews? ::meev::
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2T160MSEH ... deID=&tag=
Kurimoto destroyed essential component of Guin Saga.
Please imagine if Anakin Skywalker do not became Darth Vader and has a homosexual encounter with Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars episode III. Do you want to see that in authentic history of Star Wars?
Guin Saga turned to slash novel. Kurimoto's bizzare sexial fantasy is nightmare of many readers in Japan.

Currently here:
Imperial Politics and Symbolics in Ancient Japan
About the origins of the emperor mythology, imperial regalia, etc in Japan. Turns out that it wasn't really something Japanese people believed in since the dawn of history, it was made up by the emperors and empresses in the Tenmu dynasty. Who knew?
 

Cerceaux

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^Yeah, I've seen that review and I'm certain the person is a troll because they posted the same thing for every novel listed. ::gaku::

There *is* a manga, but it's a heavily condensed version of just a handful of the novels and the artwork is terribad.

EDIT: Okay, back to the library, and picked up Gun Saga 2 and Red Seas Under Red Skies (Sequel to Locke Lamora). Kinda in the mood for fantasy lately but I never know what to pick up and I always ignore the ones with covers like 80s metal albums but there are so many of those and other times the library has like volumes 3 in a series and nothing else. :roll: I demand more free books. ::cred::
 

Iskanderia

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While we're talking about fantasy, I'd like to remind you to look for Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy (the first book is The Blade Itself). Dude owns. Every book he writes is better than the last.

I forgot to mention this one in previous fantasy discussions because it's been like 16 years since I've read it but you should definitely check out Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series (at the very least, read the first and best book, Wizard's First Rule). It's wildly popular (they even made a [terrible] TV show based on it) so I'm sure they'll have it. The first few books are fun as hell though the author clearly started to get really into Ayn Rand while writing the fourth or fifth book and managed to turn his action-packed fantasy adventure into Atlas Shrugged Part 2 (now with 100% more magic!) which ultimately made me quit the series.

But still, Wizard's First Rule is very hard to put down and great fun. It's 800 pages long and my dad read it in ONE DAY (it took me like 3 days).
 

Cerceaux

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Iskanderia wrote:
It's wildly popular (they even made a [terrible] TV show based on it) so I'm sure they'll have it.
Nope! Of the Sword of Truth series, they have volumes 6, 9, and 13. And go figure, they're all checked in! ::meev::

However I will keep it on my radar for a possible secondhand purchase, and same with the Joe Abercrombie novels.

EDIT: Finished Guin Saga 2, I'm kinda into this now. Too bad I'll never get past volume 5 without learning Japanese. Also General Amnelis is pretty cool, too bad she's a villain.
 

Iskanderia

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Books 6, 9 and 13 were probably not checked out because Terry Goodkind was in full Randroid mode by the time he wrote them (or so I've heard) and no one* wants to read about a war mage changing the world by giving long-ass speeches to peasants which amount to "Capitalism rules; Communism drools."

*Some people - who are also Randroids - certainly do want to read Objectivist talking points in the form of a novel though (as evidenced by how many books Ayn Rand has sold) and lots of Objectivists with no former interest in fantasy have read and enjoyed The Sword of Truth series despite how the philosophy is just sort of haphazardly jammed into the narrative at awkward angles. Contrary to what seems to be the majority opinion, these people think that the series gets better as it goes on - these people are wrong.

A friend of mine who fits this description, said of the TV show before it started that he predicted it would be the biggest boon to Objectivism since Atlas Shrugged. Little did he know Sam Raimi was the executive producer and was going to turn it into a Xena/Hercules clone. I love that Raimi decided to ignore all that stuff and made the show way dumber and shallower than the books even at their most light-hearted.
 

flowersofnight

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Iskanderia wrote:
and no one* wants to read about a war mage changing the world by giving long-ass speeches to peasants which amount to "Capitalism rules; Communism drools."
I'm almost morbidly curious to check this out now ::meev:: You probably have to roll 1d20 against instant death if you're not an Objectivist though ::meev::

Finished the other day with:
The Trashing of Margaret Mead which was pretty interesting. It's about the controversy over whether Mead's "Coming of Age in Samoa" was totally wrong or not about sexual behavior in 1920s Samoa. The verdict: she was probably closer to right than not.

Next: Etruscan Myth, Sacred History, and Legend
 

Iskanderia

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Yeah, don't bother. Like I said, that stuff doesn't become super obvious until book six (I was thinking it was book four or five until I looked it up just now) and it's actually pretty well done in that one. He does a good job of portraying the living and working conditions under communism. I remember actually being pretty impressed with it though it's far from perfect and there's a few ridiculous things in it that made me say "oh, come on" out loud while reading it.

Of course, I read it 13 years ago, before I knew much about objectivism or libertarianism, so I suspect that I would feel differently about it if I had read it for the first time this year. I have no idea whether I would find it better or worse though.

It's too bad that the term "Mary Sue" didn't exist in 2000. It would have been helpful when discussing the series with people back then.
 

faith

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Just started on Outlaws of the Marsh (shuihuzhuan) by Shi Nai'an.
It's actually really fun - going to be a good bus read for sure.
And at about 2150 pages I guess I'll have it for quite some time...
 

flowersofnight

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Wandering_Fox

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Now reading a fantastic book called 言えなかった、ありがとう (I never told you "Thank you") by the founder of the てっぺん izakaya in Japan, Keisuke Oshima.

It's basically an inspirational book full of letters by people to the people they've always wanted to say think you to. Children thanking their parents for raising them, people thanking deceased friends for always being there... Really good letters. I read a letter last night by a man who was thankful to his brother for raising him when they were kids. The two brothers (one was very young, the other was much older) said goodbye to their mother and left the house to go skiing. They were skiing all day and then on the way home, they stopped at a restaurant. At the restaurant the older brother got a call from home. He came back to find their food on the table, but he didn't eat anything; he just drank coffee. When they arrived back at home, the younger brother saw a wake was happening in his house and he discovered that just hours after they had left that morning, his mother had passed away from a myrocardial infarction. From then one he was raised by his brother and older sister, but had never been able to say "thank you" to them. The book is full of letters like these and a lot of them are very inspirational. There are many stories of people who were on the verge of giving up when someone took the time to encourage them and help them live a better life. :cool:
 

PureElegance

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I'm still reading "The Voyage Out," which is excellent and always has me reeling, but I've picked up three books from the library! :D They do that old-fashioned writing your name on the card thing at ours, haha.

I picked up:

"China's Examination Hell" by Ichisada Miyazaki (translated)
It's about the examinations and focuses on its most elaborate and dramatic time during the Qing dynasty. Jeez, it was so hardcore. I already started it and it's pretty lively, not like an old history, scholarly book. I feel like the Chinese examination has been in almost every Chinese novel I've read XD

"Disgraceful Matters: The Politics of Chastity in Eighteenth-Century China" by Janet M. Theiss
This looks super interesting! It goes into the politics and laws about sex, rape, assault, losing virginity, marriage, chastity cults, etc at the time. From what I've read so far it reminds me a bit of the "Liberalism in the Bedroom," written about these types of things in colonial Peru. I'm generalizing since I haven't read much of it, but it looks cool so far.

"The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II" by Iris Chang
This looks fantastic! I don't know if anyone's heard of this book, but this is one of the first books published about Nanking, in the 1990s. The author's grandparents survived and growing up she wondered why there were hardly any books about the event, so she wrote one herself.

It's really, really cool. She includes a lot of new information, such as descriptions of what happened by people who were all there, the one surgeon in the area, Nazis, missionaries, professors, etc. She discovered the diaries of people who experienced it (like John Rabe!) and had them translated from German and other languages, also talking to living survivors.

I'm surprised one of the heroes was a German businessman named John Rabe who helped many of the victims and wrote about everything he saw with photos and footage, and he wrote to Hitler about what was happening. He got taken by the gestapo right after that, but got saved by Siemans. He helped established the Nanking Safety Zone which saved ~200,000 people, a lot of people fled into that zone to escape the Japanese. Just reading through his diary entries and seeing his desperation mount every day at the situation is really something.

Having received no answer to his request, Rabe wrote again to Fukui the following day, this time in an even more desperate tone:
We are sorry to trouble you again but the sufferings and needs of the 200 000 civilians for whom we are trying to care make it urgent that we try to secure action from your military authorities to stop the present disorder among Japanese soldiers wandering through the Safety Zone... The second man in our Housing Commission had to see two women in his family at 23 Hankow Road raped last night at supper time by Japanese soldiers. Our associate food commissioner, Mr. Sone, has to convey trucks with rice and leave 2,500 people in families at his Nanking Theological Seminary to look after themselves. Yesterday, in broad daylight, several women at the Seminary were raped right in the middle of a large room filled with men, women, and children! We 22 Occidentals cannot feed 200,000 Chinese civilians and protect them night and day. That is the duty of the Japanese authorities ...

On the February 10, 1938, Rabe wrote in his diary:
Fukui, whom I tried to find at the Japanese embassy to no avail all day yesterday, paid a call on me last night. He actually managed to threaten me: "If the newspapers in Shanghai report bad things, you will have the Japanese army against you", he said... In reply to my question as to what I then could say in Shanghai, Fukui said "We leave that to your discretion." My response: "It looks as if you expect me to say something like this to the reporters: The situation in Nanking is improving everyday. Please don't print any more atrocities stories about the vile behavior of Japanese soldiers, because then you'll only be pouring oil on fire of disagreement that already exists between the Japanese and Europeans." "Yes", he said simply beaming, "that would be splendid!"
There's a book named "The Good Man of Nanking: The Diaries of John Rabe" which has all of his diaries entries, I'd love to get my hands on that! :)

Iris Chang included a lot of horrible photos taken by Americans, Germans, Japanese, etc at the time. The most horrific one for me is the woman on the floor with a rod sticking out of her vagina. There were also pictures of the Massacre Contests they held.

She also writes about Minnie Vautrin, who I had never heard of before until now. She was a missionary who helped save many women at the time, and she did a lot of other things that she was seen as a "Goddess" by the Chinese. She was disappointed in herself for not saving more women, she was traumatized by what she saw, so she killed herself :( I can't even imagine what it would be like to see so many women being raped around you and being powerless to do anything.

After Chang published the book, she got a lot of acclaim, awards, etc but she also got a lot of hate from supernationalist Japanese people, including a lot of death threats, and along with her depressing work and mounting depression she shot herself at 36 :( I'm really impressed by what she did, how she was able to bring light to this event, it's really inspiring.

Duan, a tough middle-aged woman who studied the Nanjing atrocities for years and considers herself a seasoned pro, still has nightmares from the stories she's heard and photos she's seen. Chang, she says, worked incessantly in Nanjing interviewing survivors, immersed in graphic pictures and documents, all the while agonizing over why the story was not widely known outside China. By the time she left Nanjing, Duan says, Chang was physically weak but even more committed to telling the story.
"The subject matter had to affect her. Perhaps she could not bear it," Duan says, her eyes filling with tears as she pulls out a picture of herself and Chang at a dinner in Nanjing.
"We just can't understand why such a great young writer and lovely person would leave the world so early," Duan says, shaking her head.
:(

"I wrote it out of a sense of rage," she said. "I didn't really care if I made a cent from it. It was important to me that the world knew what happened in Nanking back in 1937."
Wow!

All in all it'll be a great read :) I think it's important to know about these things.
 

MissUMana

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@PE: If you haven't already, read Mo Hayder's "Tokyo".
 

PureElegance

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MissUMana wrote:
@PE: If you haven't already, read Mo Hayder's "Tokyo".
I just looked up the book and it looks pretty cool, thanks! :D I don't think we have it at my library though (weird how I'm calling this Chinese place 'my library' XD), but I'll see. We have a lot of interesting books there, especially old ones. I only took out three for now, haha.

About "Tokyo" it says that it's also about:
"the build-up and reality of the massacre of Nanking and the effect it still has today."
This is really important since you can tell it's a huge deal in China, especially since they're still waiting for the Japanese to make an official written apology for it, and Iris Chang was working towards that before her suicide. The Chinese also hear a lot about the people who deny it ever happened, making them even more upset even if those people are not the majority. These days with China's conflict with Japan over the Diaoyu Islands, you can tell all that deep-seated tension is coming back because of the Japanese invasion and the massacre. I think "massacre" as a word is putting it too lightly since I think it was basically something really, really terrible.

I was talking with my Chinese friends today about the book, and they told me that the event was just horrible and how their parents and grandparents don't like the Japanese. My nerd friend Laura told me that even her father still doesn't really like them and it would be a scandal if Laura brought a Japanese boy home. It's really interesting how everything suddenly got serious with all of us when I brought it up. They don't like how there's usually just a paragraph on the Nanjing Massacre in textbooks and how no one really talks about it.

I read part of a chapter last night and I was really blown away. It takes a lot to shock me with gory things, but this was on another level! I can't believe people can do that to other people. I mean, the Nazis had all these ways to kill the Jews and others, but I feel like the Japanese had all these really bloodier, less mechanical ways. A lot of sword things, sticking sticks and things into women's vaginas, ripping out pregnant women's fetuses, beating up old women, binding women to things like chairs to continually rape them, raping young girls to death, forcing people to commit incest, rolling over people with tanks, killing contests, freezing people's bodies with ice and shooting at them, etc etc etc etc... It's just all really shocking, things that I never even imagined, you know?

It's not as if Iris Chang goes into detail about each type of brutality, she lists many of the things out, but even by themselves they're horrifying!

I read one story told by a survivor named Tang and how he managed to stay alive in a killing contest. I can't even imagine that. A person was killed in front of him and fell on him, and he fell with the body and just lay there for forever, even not screaming when a Japanese solider poked all the bodies with a bayonet and poked him around 5 times. Geez.

Now I'm reading about a pregnant woman who stayed in Nanjing and fought some of the soldiers really well to not get raped (all the women she was with were taken away to be raped) until one of them stabbed her in the belly with his bayonet, and they repeatedly stabbed her a lot after that. Her father found her and thought she was dead so was preparing a burial until one of her relatives said she was alive, thank goodness.

"Now, after fifty-eight years, the wrinkles have covered the scars," she told me during my visit to her apartment in Nanking. "But when I was young, the scars on my face were obvious and terrible" ........ "Almost sixty years later, surrounded by her numerous children and grandchildren, Li had retained her health and passion for life--even her reputation for being ill-tempered. Her one regret, she said, was not learning kung fu from her father; otherewise, she might have enjoyed the pleasure of killing all three of the Japanese soldiers that day."
Wow!

I ordered the John Rabe book and my mom will be bringing it to me when she comes to Shanghai! :)
 

MissUMana

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flowersofnight wrote:
Currently: "La logique, ou l'art de penser".
Port-Royal stuff, WOW!!!
 

flowersofnight

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MissUMana wrote:
flowersofnight wrote:
Currently: "La logique, ou l'art de penser".
Port-Royal stuff, WOW!!!
That's the one! Is it still famous over there? Here, no one at all knows it. I'm not sure if there's even an English version.
 

faith

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Remember my words of wisdom - within lies your answer as to whether it was translated or not. Or at least, whether it should have been or not.

Yeah so I'm reading/translating Twins by Takemoto Novala and I'm on page 12 now. Surprisingly complex for something written by a gothic lolita dude. He just started talking about clothing and all I can think is "oh dear" >_<
 

flowersofnight

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faith wrote:
Remember my words of wisdom
I'm posting them for the enjoyment of all XD

Learning to think like a Frenchman is like learning to cook like an Englishman
::meev::
 

MissUMana

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flowersofnight wrote:
MissUMana wrote:
flowersofnight wrote:
Currently: "La logique, ou l'art de penser".
Port-Royal stuff, WOW!!!
That's the one! Is it still famous over there? Here, no one at all knows it. I'm not sure if there's even an English version.
Honestly, I doubt anybody here except scholars even knows it exists. But the older generations would have heard about Port-Royal.
 

MissUMana

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faith wrote:
Learning to think like a Frenchman is like learning to cook like an Englishman
There's no learning either, ahahahah! It's inbred.
 
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