So what's going on with the website?

Discussion in '-feedback-' started by Seventh Arm, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2006 7:56 pm

    I know LejuN decided to take a break and everything, and I know it's his(?) site, but six months?

    I don't even use the main site anymore, and I bet it's the same for most people, which is a real shame, since it was one of only a few sites where one could find really reliable information and news.

    Now there are server problems and (I think I'm right in saying)nobody can do antyhing about it, because the guy who runs this place and has access to the server isn't interested anymore.
    The ideal situation would of course be for LejuN to come back, but I've only seen him active on the forums once since he went on Hiatus.

    wouldn't one of you mods be willing to take it on?
    I'm aware that LejuN already said 'no' to that proposal, but that was a good long while ago now.
    (Really hope LejuN's a 'he' after all that)


    Is it my place to be asking these questions? I feel a little presumptuous to be honest. :? :|
     
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  2. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12618
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2006 10:51 pm

    Yeah, Lejun is a "he" XD

    We've tried discussing it with him recently but... :P

    If you want you can take it up with Lejun yourself I guess, and tell him how cool it would be if someone was actually fixing the server problems and maintaining things.
     
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  3. navate -member- -member-

    navate
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 3716
    Location: nj : usa
    Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2006 11:00 pm

    In regards to the main site, I can't tell you much since it's still in a very basic planning stage, but we are trying to do something about it. The process has been a bit set back, though, since the Boss disappears for days on end and he's the only one who can change anything. :( Flowers and I can jabber on with plans and gather all the info we want, but it's not much good until he either takes the initiative to update it all himself, or gives us access to the server so we can take care of it. He's expressed willingness to work with us on updating the site, but, um... has since disappeared. ::erm::

    So... yeah. Badger him, I guess. It is, unfortunately, something we have no control over unless he--as you said--chooses to dedicate time to -scape- once more or gives Flower or I the ability to do it for him.
     
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  4. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2006 11:09 pm

    Me take it up with Lejun? He'd probably smite me with lightning or something. :o

    Did it ever occur to either of you that you could start your own site/forum?
    I'm not saying you should, as it's very easy for me to suggest it, but the reality is a lot of hard work. And of course Scape is well known, whereas you'd be starting from scratch, plus hosting costs and crap like that would probably rule it out... Still. Might be worth thinking about. Maybe.

    I'm not making much sense am I? :lol: *so very tired*
     
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  5. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12618
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Fri Jan 6, 2006 11:23 pm

    I don't think it's necessary when a minimum investment of time and effort would get the main site and forums back to 100% operating condition.
     
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  6. Jursie -member- -member-

    Jursie
    Joined: 22 Aug 2005
    Posts: 108
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 12:33 am

    Seventh Arm wrote:
    I still use (browse?) the main site, especially for fact-checking. Even if it hasn't been updated in aeons, it's still pretty accurate.
     
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  7. D -member- -member-

    D
    Joined: 17 Oct 2004
    Posts: 947
    Location: -Disorder Heaven-
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 12:53 am

    Hmm yeah...does anyone even know why LeJun went on his hiatus??
    I think this whole thing could be resolved if LeJun would allow the Mods access to the server and he could go back to his hiatus... :|
    But..maybe not....I hope I didn't seem like too much of a jerk there.....but LeJun sort of.....disappeared.....
     
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  8. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 7:39 am

    Jursie wrote:
    Well of course, it's accurate as far as it goes, but still...
    There's been a lot of stuff happening in recent months; new Moi dix Mois lineup/album, Gackt had a release (or seven) I believe? Hora released THE WORLD etc...

    Obviously we get all of this on the forum pretty quickly, but the site is losing relevance all the time.
    As it stands it's a reasonable encyclopedia artists releases and information that's very useful for fact checking, as you say. But without more recent updates it's a bit of a waste, don't you think?
     
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  9. faith -tea party- -tea party-

    faith
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 5057
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 12:36 pm

    It's not fancy, but I've got all the diary entries/release info/lyrics up on my website for Hora. As does Hime for Kaya on hers.
     
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  10. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 12:45 pm

    Oh yeah I know. You guys work your bollocks off (metaphorically speaking) and I (as well as everyone else I'm sure) really appreciates the time you take for our benefit.
    But I would still be happier if it were easily accessible on the main site.

    I feel guilty like I've offended or insulted you now, faith . :? :oops:
     
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  11. Dix Infernal -member- -member-

    Dix Infernal
    Joined: 10 Sep 2005
    Posts: 441
    Location: Right Here
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 5:46 pm

    I think Lejun should hand over the 'keys' so to speak to Flowers and Navate- if the man's been on hiatus for six months and doesn't really plan on coming back, then he should let them have access. They've maintained and taken care of this forum and it's members in Lejun's stead- and if he isn't planning on coming back (in the very near future), then he should let Flowers and Navate have more control and get the actual site back to what it used to be. Yes Lejun created -Scape- and all, but it seems to me that he's almost a non-entity here. A lot of the younger members (myself included) have never seen him online, and never have read any posts by him (not including those in the old threads). To tell you the truth, when I first showed up, I though Flowers was in charge- it took me a few days until I found out about the whole Lejun/Hiatus situation.

    Well, to me Flowers and Navate are the bosses. Lejun disappeared and they've stayed on and taken care of this place. They should be allowed to take over.

    But... I hope I didn't offend anyone (i.e., Lejun). If I did, I'm sorry. I know it's none of my business. I'll get off my soapbox now. :oops:
     
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  12. Kyuketsuki -dead scape- dead scape

    Kyuketsuki
    Joined: 27 Sep 2005
    Posts: 4429
    Location: 5 paces behind Seth with a pair of scissors....
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 6:05 pm

    ^ Lejun's definately posted since you and I have been on. He did quite a bit here in feedback, and appeared once or twice elsewhere, but it is true that he hasn't been here as much as the other mods, of course.

    ~ketsu
     
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  13. mort -member- -member-

    mort
    Joined: 08 Jun 2005
    Posts: 49
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 8:04 pm

    Wow, what a bunch of nice people you all are. You come here, to a website and forum that some people you don't even know have spent a lot of time putting together since 2002 and think you can offer your opinion as to how it should be run and what should be done about it? Talk about nerve. And I'm not only talking about this particular thread or the particular people who have posted in it either.

    And before you step in Navate and throw the rules of this forum in my face (that I wrote btw, though I didn't expect you to know this because, well, you don't really know that much about me or scape, let's be honest) I suggest you take a step back and think about what exactly it is that you have personally contributed to this place - aside from your quality moderating of course - in comparison to me and LejuN. Or, let me oblige - nothing. So please keep your moderating to yourself and keep your accusations about what's wrong with this forum to yourself as well while at it. And for your information, I did not help run this place – I co-owned this place, and just because I'm not actually an 'administrator' any more doesn't mean I don't still have a say in it. A bigger one than you do in any case.

    I see people posting in here recently calling themselves 'the old regulars' who haven't even been here a year. Well, the only old members that I can see here myself still posting are Hoshi and Minagoroshi, and nobody else as far as I can tell has any idea how scape started and how scape came to be as well known and as big as it is today. Flowers, if I remember right, was made temporary moderator for the first time in spring 2004 because both me and LejuN were going to Japan to see Schwarz Stein's last live. We thought he did well so we asked him to stay on. LejuN then made him administrator when he took his break. Navate was not made moderator till after both me and LejuN had stopped posting. This was only some months ago? My, how you have grown.

    LejuN put this website and forum together. LejuN has done the web design, he has done the scanning of a vast number of the galleries, he has collected the information that makes up the bios and discographies and live reports and has looked up people who have done lyric translations and has always been very nice to everyone which is why people were happy to contribute. Did you know the first time he went to Japan he brought back presents from Moitie for all scape staff? He had never even met us in person. He has kept this site going through 3 different servers and has had to deal with a lot of server problems and has had to take the galleries down and put them back on again more than once (massive amounts of work) and has had to reinstall this forum 3 times because of errors that wiped out the last ones. He used to spend every free hour he had online in fact working for this site. For those who don't remember, he used to work on a new design for it practically every 3 months.

    So he takes a break from online life for personal reasons, which are nobody's business – and which do tend to be more important than anything that could possibly be happening on a computer – and not only gets told off for offering his opinion on an administrative issue when he does post (bah!?), but everyone seems to be angry at him for not handing over 3 years of work to 2 strangers while he is still paying for this very webspace you all use to bash him on!? If LejuN did decide to hand over scape to someone else that's his decision, but till then, please, know your place.

    If you want a website that's up to date here's an idea: make your own. If you want more smilies in the stupid forum here's another idea: get your own. In what kind of universe do you think you have a right to take over someone else's work just because they're not currently around to please you? Nobody is forcing you here. There's tons of other forums out there. And you know what else is out there? There's lots and lots of wespace providers, and html editing programmes, and magazines to scan, and lives to go watch and write reports about, and tons of MM information to read and summarise and sort through and translate and edit and make a whole website with! So off you go now and let us know how that worked out for you after 3 years yeah?

    amasanin
     
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  14. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 8:16 pm

    This is all true. So don't you think it's a real shame that it's fallen by the wayside?

    This is a fucking great site and it's a real shame to see it going to waste.
    You're right, Lejun's still paying for this place out of his own pocket, which is a great thing for him to do. But would it kill him to let flowers admin while he's dealing with his personal life?

    I'm not criticising Lejun, or suggesting he should give the site up if he doesn't want to, all I'm asking is why such a good site is being left to fall into obscurity.
    As far as I cna see it allowing someone else to run the place temporarily would be good for Lejun in the long term, so that when or if he comes back he finds his site still relevant and up to date.
     
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  15. Formless -member- -member-

    Formless
    Joined: 07 Aug 2004
    Posts: 4604
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 8:48 pm

    mort wrote:
    Well, now I'm just confused.. I could swear..

    The FEEDBACK section wrote:
    That's all I see this topic to be, falling under just what this section is for.
     
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  16. flowersofnight -moderator- -moderator-

    flowersofnight
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 12618
    Location: Vintage Live House, 1994
    Posted: Sat Jan 7, 2006 9:08 pm

    OK everyone, look.

    Frustration is obviously running high for all parties involved. We're having server problems, and when we run into these hassles it makes everything seem like a big deal. Posters have trouble posting, moderators have trouble moderating, etc. No wonder the atmosphere is getting tense. So let's all calm down.

    First off, to those who suggested "handing the site over": that's not going to happen, and not what anyone wants. This is still Lejun's site and we respect his editorial control and final judgment in matters concerning the site and forum. This is why Navate and myself keep the title "moderator": to make it clear that we're just watching the place till Lejun gets back.

    That said, our job is getting a bit harder because things are getting a bit creaky on the server side, and we're essentially powerless to do anything about it. I'll admit that I've let my frustration show to an unusual degree lately, and perhaps that's poisoned the mood here a bit.

    Navate and I have indeed asked for permission to do some basic maintenance work on the forum software and main site, but only in the spirit of the most routine housekeeping. Our job is just to keep the place running, but every so often that requires a bit more substantial measures than the ones available in the admin control panel. I think it will be very easy to keep things on an even keel with a minimum of intrusion.

    We're all posting here because for the past 3 years this site and this forum have been the best place on the Internet to find information about Malice Mizer and related artists, and to discuss them with the most responsible members of the community. If there's some discontent at the present it's because people are worried about the future, nothing more. There's no need for acrimony, no need for people to quit in frustration, no need to try to start off and make a replacement site, or any of that. I'm confident that we can all pull together and keep this community strong until we've seen the end of the problems we're facing.

    I think I speak for myself, Navate, Lejun, Amasanin, and everyone else who's a member here when I say: we'll all do what we can to further the best interests of this forum and website. Let's never lose sight of that.
     
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  17. Monophobia -member- -member-

    Monophobia
    Joined: 04 Aug 2004
    Posts: 1681
    Location: Canada
    Posted: Sun Jan 8, 2006 12:49 am

    I really want to point out that I don't even really think the problems happening with the forum are a big deal. As long as I can post, I'm content. Sure it's annoying to a degree, but I deal with it.

    I in no way blame LejuN for any of this, nor will I tell him to do anything about it. I'm sure he's aware by now and will do something if he so pleases.

    I have been a contributing member of -scape- for probably over 3 years now. I was formerly under the username "Kaya" then. I know what this forum used to be like, with Amasanin and Seiya as mods. I do have to say I miss those days, but I think it's appauling when people who haven't even been here a year are calling themselves the "old regulars." Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for any praise, but I'm most certain the ones that have even bothered to say it were looking for it.

    I guess I really have no point with this post, other than the fact that perhaps Amasanin seems harsh in hers, but I have to say I'm glad she said it.

    Flowers, I'm sorry if you were trying to end the discussion with your post, I contemplated not posting at all but...in the end I decided I wanted to say something and it's rare that I even speak up on such matters...
     
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  18. Mukau -member-

    Mukau
    Joined: 10 Oct 2004
    Posts: 990
    Location: Joan River's house
    Posted: Sun Jan 8, 2006 6:18 am

    Is it really that big a deal? I dont think the server problems are all that bad..
     
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  19. Seventh Arm -member-

    Seventh Arm
    Joined: 18 Jul 2005
    Posts: 267
    Location: Albion
    Posted: Sun Jan 8, 2006 6:22 am

    For a start I don't think anybody has called themselves old regulars, and the server problems aren't what I was questioning, but hey, fuck it. I'll keep my mouth shut in future.
     
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  20. Geisha -member- -member-

    Geisha
    Joined: 05 Aug 2004
    Posts: 2215
    Location: In midnight ruins...
    Posted: Sun Jan 8, 2006 8:38 am

    I must say I agree with Monophobia. I haven't been posting much here recently because I have been very unhappy with the direction things have been taking and Navate's condescending and hostile reaction when I dared voice my concerns (while she practically begged certain other members not to leave – is this her idea of unbiased moderating?). The only reason why I haven't actually left is because Flowers more or less talked me out of it.

    I too have had problems connecting to -scape- for the past couple of months and, yes, it has been annoying but IMO that's merely cosmetic. There are far more fundamental problems that need fixing if we want to restore -scape- to what it used to be, yet the majority of people seem to not even be aware of them, as the posts in this thread prove. I'm beginning to wonder if there is any hope at all.
     
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