Elec wrote:
Remember that Mana and Kozi like... composed near all the songs >>!
Who is the better bassist?
- Thread starter ShadowsParadox
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Remember that Mana and Kozi like... composed near all the songs >>!
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There really is no comparison at all. Yu~ki is seriously much much better. On Bara no Seidou in the heavier songs, Yu~ki shows he can play Moi Dix Mois stuff, and with ease to if you watch the concert. Also with Shiroi, that totally blows and Moi Dix Mois bass stuff out of the water.
Thats just on that cd. If you watch Voyage live, and listen to the cd, the bass on Voyage is insane. Probably some of the best bass work I have ever heard.
At first I thought his solo in Merveilles was awful. But take into account, there is some pre reocrded music behind him, and he is doing all of the distortions and if you listen you can pick out the bass notes and it's really fast and sounds cool.
I like Kazuno, but technically, from everything that was heard from him so far, besides his bass solo, puts him nowhere near Yu~ki. Id say his best stuff Kazuno has done would be the live version of Perish, even though its just one repeat through pretty much the whole song.
Also, the stuff done in Moi Dix Mois by Mana on guitar isnt as well done either. These is some good stuff, like on Nocturnal Romance and some other songs but compared to the guitar work done in Malice Mizer its not as good, then again it may be because he is writing with one guitar instead of two and Mana has said before that he prefers two guitars. Voyage stuff I would say would be Mana's best guitar work.
Thats just on that cd. If you watch Voyage live, and listen to the cd, the bass on Voyage is insane. Probably some of the best bass work I have ever heard.
At first I thought his solo in Merveilles was awful. But take into account, there is some pre reocrded music behind him, and he is doing all of the distortions and if you listen you can pick out the bass notes and it's really fast and sounds cool.
I like Kazuno, but technically, from everything that was heard from him so far, besides his bass solo, puts him nowhere near Yu~ki. Id say his best stuff Kazuno has done would be the live version of Perish, even though its just one repeat through pretty much the whole song.
Also, the stuff done in Moi Dix Mois by Mana on guitar isnt as well done either. These is some good stuff, like on Nocturnal Romance and some other songs but compared to the guitar work done in Malice Mizer its not as good, then again it may be because he is writing with one guitar instead of two and Mana has said before that he prefers two guitars. Voyage stuff I would say would be Mana's best guitar work.
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Oasis wrote:
O.O That is by far the most stunning opinion I've ever read. I've gotta admit it. Yu~ki at first wasn'y as good, but as the years progressed, he got way better, and he has potential to play in Moi dix Mois. I don't understand why he never went ahead and joined Moi dix Mois....
Oasis wrote:
Nicely said, I also think Mana's work in Malice Mizer was so much better than Moi Dix Mois. Not to say that I don't like m10m, but Malice Mizer was superior compared to them, in my opinion.
Oasis: "no comparison"? I just broke it down for everyone, like 3 times... :-P
Jones: Compose, schmompose. You'd still be surprised at how much of their own style is injected into the finished product. After all, you're all talking about how amazing Yu~ki was, but by your argument, logically Mana told him every single note to play and when (which, y'know, wouldn't necessarily SURPRISE us, would it? ^_~). So I think it's unfair to hold Kazuno to that definition and not Yu~ki.
Realistically, I think it's largely the composition, but clearly both bassists have unique styles, so I really don't think Mana's influence has any bearing on the decision.
Jones: Compose, schmompose. You'd still be surprised at how much of their own style is injected into the finished product. After all, you're all talking about how amazing Yu~ki was, but by your argument, logically Mana told him every single note to play and when (which, y'know, wouldn't necessarily SURPRISE us, would it? ^_~). So I think it's unfair to hold Kazuno to that definition and not Yu~ki.
Realistically, I think it's largely the composition, but clearly both bassists have unique styles, so I really don't think Mana's influence has any bearing on the decision.
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Elec wrote:
I've gotta say it's pretty true what you said. ^-^
I seriously think Yu~ki. He probably has more playing experience then Kazuno, even though Kazuno rocks when it comes to 32nd notes, and the guy has a lot of potential, but he is also young, and with more practice, he'll become as good as Yu~ki. 
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Also, you do know, even though it says that Mana wrote a song, or Kozi wrote a song, that they arent the only people who made the song, all by themselves. They get input from the other members.
Say Mana writes a song. He would either write the classical intruments or one guitar part in it and would work with Kozi to get the dual guitar part down. Kozi would then decide the best way to go with Mana on the part. Then they would get Yu~ki to play bass with them to add his part, Mana wouldnt have the music pre-written for him. ect.
Just because it says that person wrote the song, doesnt mean, they picked up each instrument and played out the song on each one they way they wanted to. Its just that person had the most input and the idea for the song.
Say Mana writes a song. He would either write the classical intruments or one guitar part in it and would work with Kozi to get the dual guitar part down. Kozi would then decide the best way to go with Mana on the part. Then they would get Yu~ki to play bass with them to add his part, Mana wouldnt have the music pre-written for him. ect.
Just because it says that person wrote the song, doesnt mean, they picked up each instrument and played out the song on each one they way they wanted to. Its just that person had the most input and the idea for the song.
Elec wrote:
I'm not implying that Mana told Yuki what to play. If Mana is writing all of the parts, than why are most Moi Dix Mois basslines so simple? I doubt that he told Yuki to play every single note... considering Mana didn't write all of Malice Mizer's songs. Take a look at Syunkiss for example, or anything other song that Mana didn't write. The basslines are still as complicated, and that implies that Yuki was writing his own basslines, not Mana. I give Mana a lot of credit for writing the harmonies between the guitars, which takes a lot of talent to do. Now if you all would, for one minute, stop obsessing over Mana and his band and take a look at the music?
bassfiddlejones wrote:
I take offense to that last sentence, to be honest. This whole time, I've been discrediting Mana's influence on the basslines. Also, I still think you're holding Yu~ki to an entirely different standard than Kazuno. I think, also, that you're equating Yu~ki's "more notes and bouncy style" to be better than "Kazuno's exquisite choice of support notes." And that's fine. It really is. I merely think it's silly to think that that makes Kazuno a 'worse' player.
Also, the reason I had you assume for demonstration that Mana had 100% control is so that you could fairly assess the two players. Either he did with both or he didn't with both.
Read it again. I never said Mana had 100% control over everything. I merely said it for demonstration. After all, in my last sentence I REFUTE that, so... :?
My intent is not to offend you.
All I'm saying is, wouldn't what you call Yuki's "more notes and bouncy style" be more complicated than Kazuno's "exquisite choice of support notes"? Just because Yuki has more notes, doesn't mean he's better. I'm not judging him on that. I'm judging the two on the complications of the bass line, which yes, involves the "number of notes". But that's just one factor. The only reason that Kazuno is there is basically to provide "support notes". Normally, that is the job of the bassist. Yuki doesn't follow this normality, and turns the bass into a solo instrument at times, with the melody at times too. The bass is mostly a support instrument, but Yuki takes it and changes it around. That's why I think he's the better bassist.
All I'm saying is, wouldn't what you call Yuki's "more notes and bouncy style" be more complicated than Kazuno's "exquisite choice of support notes"? Just because Yuki has more notes, doesn't mean he's better. I'm not judging him on that. I'm judging the two on the complications of the bass line, which yes, involves the "number of notes". But that's just one factor. The only reason that Kazuno is there is basically to provide "support notes". Normally, that is the job of the bassist. Yuki doesn't follow this normality, and turns the bass into a solo instrument at times, with the melody at times too. The bass is mostly a support instrument, but Yuki takes it and changes it around. That's why I think he's the better bassist.
Ah, now that's a better argument. ^_^
...but I stilll go with Kaz. You understand. :-*
...but I stilll go with Kaz. You understand. :-*
Of course. Just some miscommunication... Good thing all is happy again, they're both good. ^_^
(btw, if anyone can't tell, I enjoy arguing..)
(btw, if anyone can't tell, I enjoy arguing..)
I do too 
Both you of you had great arguments on what you think. ^^ I'm fairly shocked over what I read. But I did read before that Mana also played bass guitar for a local band before he became popular and such. :?
He's been playing guitar ever since. That should give a clue as to his bass-playing ability. :-*
Elec wrote:
I agree, even though Mana has always wanted to play guitar. <.<' Well, before he became famous. It was new to me when I found out he used to play bass guitar before. I don't remember where I read it, but I might have it somewhere, so I can post it up for people to see....
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He played bass for Matenrow. It's on his bio on scape.
It's on his bio on scape.Probably a little late into the discussion, but remember that even though a lot of songs were COMPOSED by Mana, all the songs were arranged by Malice Mizer. Mana created the basis for the song, but the other members probably touched it up with their own styles. So Mana probably wrote a template for a bass line for most of the songs, but Yuki changed it, sometimes probably even completely, to make it sound better, and to his style. Same with the other members