Who's the cleverest businessman?

[flowersofnight]

So I was pondering some things today and this question came to mind. Who is the savviest businessman in VK? Some candidates:

Mana: Had the foresight to start his own label practically from day one, and developed it into a self-sufficient operation. Started a fashion trend, promoted it, and makes a quite decent living fleecing fangirls of all their money.

Kisaki: Has a well-tuned machine for turning disposable VK bands into ready cash. Has kept himself out there moving his products pretty much continuously.

Gackt: Right from the beginning, had ambitions to get out there and sell... and pretty much succeeded. Went major, does commercials, gets away with putting all his singles on his albums.

Kaie (ex-Matenrou, ex-DuneXXXX): Quit VK and started a bar instead. He owns a Corvette now

Your suggestions for more options are welcome too. Are there any other businessmen in the scene?


I voted Mana... he's one sly dog

 

[navate]

Oh, this is tough!

I'll go with Gackt, though. You've gotta be good to get away with putting all your singles on your albums. That takes some serious skill. ;]

 

[Monophobia]

I'd vote for whoever does the PS COMPANY thing. It seems everytime one of their bands release a single or minialbum, there's like three different versions of it with one different PV or track on each.

 

[Sumire_hitsugi]

Hmmm......don't know why (well...ex-Matina, ex-Syndrome, ex-Kisaki Project, Vidoll, and 12012. Plus, Kisaki has to be given a pat on the back from getting booted from Deg and sticking with VK all these years. I don't care that he makes $20 2-song singles; I still like the music and the band. XD His label seems like one big happy VK family. And being happy is what counts. Also, enduring AX in America. Lulz.) , but I voted Kisaki. >_>



*shuffles away*

 

[Arison]

I'm at a bit of a fault here. Mana created his own record label then had the guts to move to a major label, then back to his label when he felt it needed. Gackt... I'm not sure. I know a few other artists who put all their singles on their albums, such as Ayumi Hamasaki. She sometimes has a few remixes or instrumentals (ala Moments or CAROLS single), a track from an album (such as the INSPIRE single), remixes of old songs (like No Way to Say), and very rarely either just one track or a song special to the single (so rare, in fact, that I can't think of any *edit* actually, I can! LOVE ~Destiny~ and Depend on You are the only two singles that have additional songs which have never appeared anywhere else.). So Gackt isn't the only one who can get away with putting all his singles on albums.

However, as I think on a larger scale, I think Avex Trax might be the best. They release cd only singles / albums, cd+dvd singles / albums, numerous live DVDs each year for Ayumi, Overseas editions, SACD editions and DVDAudio editions, and four+ first press editions for one album. So, I say the cleverest marketmen title goes to Avex Trax, the greedy bastards. Why? Because they will release numerous versions and editions of the same thing, and fans will still buy all of them.

 

[Camuflagem]

I chose Gackt because he is ambitous, talented and he works hard to achieve what he wants, i think he deservs what he achieved. He is a very successful artist now having so many releases and having his name in a lot of products and media.

Second comes Mana because i think he (or the people who help him) is very smart about the release of things and promoting him.

Kisaki: I would not say he is a "good" businessman because i am really fed up with all these bands from his label that start to sound good and as time passes by they end up sounding awful. also his label tend to release live dvds with not very good quality (first vidoll live dvd comes to mind) And i am really annoyed with the amount of live dvds that vidoll has...i am starting to think his label takes a huge amount of profit from vidoll mainly or something...

I would also add miyavi here, although i don't like him i have to say that he is very charismatic - he really drags people attention. He is getting a lot of attention from the media, has a movie , photobooks and so on. Although i think he should pay more attention to his music rather than appearing in the cover of 27872873 japanese magazines, at least he has conquered a large fanbase - and this sums many points for a business-VK-star (!!) XD

I'd vote for whoever does the PS COMPANY thing. It seems everytime one of their bands release a single or minialbum, there's like three different versions of it with one different PV or track on each.

this reminds me why i dispise Gazette so much.

 

[flowersofnight]

So Gackt isn't the only one who can get away with putting all his singles on albums.

Well keep in mind he also does many other promotional activities too... he's no slouch in moving his product. I just kind of threw that last bit in as a little joke

However, as I think on a larger scale, I think Avex Trax might be the best.

Perhaps, but I'm keeping this to individuals, and people at least somewhat connected to the VK scene. Of course top-flight major artists like Ayu with have top-flight promotion, that doesn't count

As per Camuflagem's comment, I'll add Miyavi to the list. If anyone knows who runs PS Company, I'll add that too.
EDIT: and if no one knows maybe I'll just put "yakuza"

 

[faith]

Gackt learned to sell his presence. That takes mad skill...

 

[voyagesansretour]

I voted for Mana, because even if Gackt has a major label selling albums, he is still under a label, so he doesn't get the 100% of money, its more like the label is the one making money.
In the other side, mana not only started some fashion, but actually sells really well it (M-M-M designs).
Also he is owner of the the Indie Label Midi-Nette, and is also a musical producer, so he makes really much money after all. Even If Schwarz Stein disbanded, I'm sure he'll find another band to produce, and make money.
Mana's really intelligent when comes into selling.

 

[katamari damacy]

I voted Gackt for all the reasons stated. I almost voted Mana, but all of you keep talking about his record label, that right now technically only has a solo project signed to it, and it is his own project. I know he makes money with MmM and all, but I seriously think he could pick up the slack by pushing his record label. He says he's always on the look out for new talent, but has only had 3 bands on it, two of which were/are his.

Correct me if I am wrong of course about how many bands he has signed to his label so I can feel stupid until I edit it

And Mana doesn't keep 100% of his money. Part of running/owning a label (as with any business) cost money to keep operational, atleast some of the money he is making is obviously going right back into Midi:Nette. Same for MmM as well.

 

[flowersofnight]

And Mana doesn't keep 100% of his money. Part of running/owning a label (as with any business) cost money to keep operational, atleast some of the money he is making is obviously going right back into Midi:Nette. Same for MmM as well.

Very true, but Gackt doesn't keep 100% of his sales either, to be fair. The label will always get its cut. Of course, whether it's smarter to run your own label or stay on someone else's label is a very fair question.

And you're right that Midi:Nette has only ever had 3 bands.

 

[Camuflagem]

And Mana doesn't keep 100% of his money. Part of running/owning a label (as with any business) cost money to keep operational, atleast some of the money he is making is obviously going right back into Midi:Nette. Same for MmM as well.

Yes, and besides this...maybe he is not the only owner...so he has to share the profit among the other owners too.

 

[Geisha]

Nice poll, Flowers! Analysing business plans is part of my job, so I'm kind of in my element here.

First of all, I think this contest is really only between Mana and Kisaki because none of the others are running their own companies, so they don't really qualify as businessmen. They may have some degree of influence over their fortunes but they have effectively handed the reins of power over to their respective labels. No matter how successful they are, they don't decide on business strategies and they don't plan their own budgets. They have less responsibility and face fewer risks than Mana and Kisaki but they don't reap the full rewards either.

Mana and Kisaki have a lot in common: they are both successful businessmen and have survived in the cut-throat entertainment industry for +/-10 years. They have done so within an obscure niche of the Indies scene and stubbornly refuse to compromise on their artistic ideals for greater commercial success. Both have faced serious setbacks in their careers but have emerged stronger from the crisis. They both own their own music labels and were some of the first Japanese Indies artists to expand internationally.

But there are differences as well: Mana is not only a musician but also a fashion designer and owns and successfully runs not one but two companies (Midi:Nette and Moi-même-Moitié). Kisaki has always been Indies whereas Mana took MM to a major label and then moved them back again to his own label. Kisaki's previous label, Matina, folded whereas Midi:Nette seems to have always been doing OK. Undercode has several bands (as did Matina) whereas Schwarz Stein was the 1st non-Mana band that Midi:Nette ever signed.

Here is a quick comparison:

Mana:
Own music label: yes
Own fashion label: yes
Number of bands on label: 3 (1 active, 1 on hiatus, 1 disbanded)
Domestic release CDs/DVDs/VHS: 50+ (MM, M10M, SS)
International distribution (CD): yes
International distribution (clothes): yes
International website: yes
International fanclub: yes
Foreign release CDs: 2 (1 M10M, 1 MM)
Foreign release DVDs: 1 (M10M)
First live played abroad: 3/2005
Number of lives played abroad: 2 (M10M)

Kisaki:
Own music label: yes
Own fashion label: no
Number of bands on label: 6 (active)
Domestic release CDs/DVDs/VHS: too many to count^^
International distribution (CD): yes (Kisaki Project & Vidoll)
International distribution (clothes): no
International website: no
International fanclub: no
Foreign release CDs: 2 (1 Kisaki Project, 1 Vidoll)
Foreign release DVDs: 0
First live played abroad: 6/2004
Number of lives played abroad: 2 (1 Kisaki Project, 1 Phantasmagoria (upcoming))

Overall I think Kisaki's performance as a businessman is more volatile than Mana's. Perhaps Mana is able to be more constant and more focused because he essentially only sells one product (himself) whereas Kisaki always had to look after a whole bunch of bands but having more bands also spreads the risk (i.e. if one band messes up you still have the others). Mana has almost always had all his eggs in one basket but he has never had to close down his company like Kisaki. I have no idea how they stack up against each other in terms of domestic CD sales (probably even?) but Mana seems to be selling more CDs internationally. Kisaki was first to go abroad but Mana has achieved greater success in a shorter period of time, M10M being the second most popular Japanese band in Europe after Dir en Grey (by concert tickets sold), and he was able to achieve that with only 1 active band. He now has a bi-lingual website for his band, sells his clothes internationally and is one of the very few Japanese artists who have an international fanclub.

So my vote went to Mana.

[EDIT] Added more detail to stats.

 

[Geisha]

Oh - what happened to Faith's post?

 

[faith]

Wait a minute! You're assuming 2 things:

1) Moitie is indeed sucessful
2) Mana took the band to a major label and then decided to go back to indies.

Do you have proof of either of these assumptions?
Gothic and Lolita is NOT as sucessful as people make it out to be, and he had to close down some of his stores. And where are the new products on the CDJapan website? They're not there. The "NEW" products are from last year...
They left the international fanclub up to 1 man (yes, the entire thing was run by 1 man) who disagreed with Mana on a personal level and had rather little contact with him. He also waited months at a time to translate the Madousho and then asked ME how to make the translations better and used his friend to translate it, who didn't even know the name of the fanclub. The 3 things the club president did right in his entire career were set in motion by one of the other employees in the company and me, and Mana had NO idea. Meanwhile, his Japanese fans were put off because he hadn't toured in Japan for an eternity, and then he went abroad (and they were justified). He just FINALLY stopped talking about food and reached out to fans in the last Madousho.

Businesswise, I don't know. But I think in any situation, lack of communication, cultural understanding, understaffment, and not taking fans into consideration are pretty big mistakes. Besides... some of the stuff sold at Moitie is pretty weird...curtains...wine glasses...? I mean, come on. How are those going to generate a profit?

Which is why I've always seen it as a cult of sorts. And that's why I asked about the buying Mana's blood thing in another pole. Asahara use to sell his blood, and some of the cult funds came from that kind of stuff. Not that I think Mana sells his blood for money *laughs* Cause he doesn't.

And that's my uninformed opinion...if it's wrong, I'm sorry.

But I do agree with Geisha that Mvy and Gackt are not real businessmen. However, they learned to conform, and if you define sucessful as having MONEY, a record company that doesn't interfere with you too much, singles that aren't that great but still sell beautifully, and the ability to look weird and still have bandgirls, well then, my vote definitely goes to Gackt. Though Crown records isn't that big either...and you kinda gotta wonder about that.

One of my english students was involved with a record company, and he said Gackt's an "idol who sings" now, which is the most sucessful thing to be in Japan. That way you get money and fame, but don't have to be naked if you don't want to.

...but maybe Mana doesn't WANT what Gackt has. Maybe he only wants a small group of fans who really like what he does. In that case, he is sucessful in his own way, and his business plan does not need to be extremely good.

EDT: Sorry, Geisha, I decided to flesh it out and be serious...

 

[navate]

You both have really good points and presented them very well. I guess it depends how each person weighs those points that decides what they think... I took this poll from a rather silly perspective but both of you really made me consider it differently. Mmm, brain food.

 

[Sumire_hitsugi]

This just came to me.........would a possible candidate be YOSHIKI?

 

[Formless]

This just came to me.........would a possible candidate be YOSHIKI?

Yoshiki has a knack for finding talent, but I wouldn't put him out there as a business man.

 

[Elec]

I just want to say that while some of you see Malice Mizer's move to Columbia from Midi:Nette and back again as "Mana suiting his needs", I see it as "a major label didn't sign them on for future works".

 

[Geisha]

Wait a minute! You're assuming 2 things:

1) Moitie is indeed sucessful
2) Mana took the band to a major label and then decided to go back to indies.

Do you have proof of either of these assumptions?
Gothic and Lolita is NOT as sucessful as people make it out to be, and he had to close down some of his stores. And where are the new products on the CDJapan website? They're not there. The "NEW" products are from last year...

1) Moitie is successful in that it has survived for (so far) 6 years despite not only being nichy by nature but also far more expensive than most other Gothic Lolita labels (justifiably so but it must put people off). And AFAIK the "new" things on CD Japan (the Gothic Arch stuff, the high waist EGA trousers and lots of the other stuff) are new. Of course I don't live in Japan, so I can't personally check on what's in the shops but I didn't see them when I was in Tokyo last December and it's the same stuff that's on the Japanese website. Also, Mana is modeling it in this year's GLB.

2) Mana was the leader of MM, so if he didn't want to go to Columbia I'm pretty sure they would not have gone. I guess I'm assuming that he took them back again but he did say that he prefers to be on Midi:Nette where he has full control over being at Columbia, so at least he wasn't unhappy to go back.

They left the international fanclub up to 1 man (yes, the entire thing was run by 1 man) who disagreed with Mana on a personal level and had rather little contact with him. He also waited months at a time to translate the Madousho and then asked ME how to make the translations better and used his friend to translate it, who didn't even know the name of the fanclub. The 3 things the club president did right in his entire career were set in motion by one of the other employees in the company and me, and Mana had NO idea.

So CD Japan wasn't up to the job. I guess that's why the FC is now being run by Midi:Nette.

Meanwhile, his Japanese fans were put off because he hadn't toured in Japan for an eternity, and then he went abroad (and they were justified).

Prior to playing 2 lives in Europe in March 2005 M10M played at Dis Inferno in December 2004 and had another live in February 2005. The tour final of the European Tour was in Tokyo.

He just FINALLY stopped talking about food and reached out to fans in the last Madousho.

I don't know what you mean - he has talked about lots of different things.

Businesswise, I don't know. But I think in any situation, lack of communication, cultural understanding, understaffment, and not taking fans into consideration are pretty big mistakes.

I don't agree with that at all, especially the "not taking fans into account". Of course he is still inexperienced when it comes to handling things like international expansion and he makes mistakes (I never said that he didn't) but, as far as I can see, every time he becomes aware of it he does something about it.